Bonding point blades to frogs in Peco Code 55 points (or similar)

[n9]

This was touched upon here:

 

 

But now I'm getting to it, I see a million ways to do it, all with various hazards and pros.

 

Here is a Vanilla Peco Code 55 point from the underside (it happens to be a Unifrog):

 

 

I imagine you want to:

. Solder the blade close to the frog to limit lateral wire movement as the blades throw.

. Use multicore not solid core, at least in the stretch of wire that's likely to flex. (i.e. solid core could be part of a run leading to the flex point.)

. Do this on the underside of the point.

. Probably use AWG 24 or 7/0.2 gauge of wire.

 

But thereafter I get into things like:

. The bulk of wire added underneath the point: Do you carve out space in underlay? Doesn't that later result in ballasting hell? Do you instead run wires vertically through slots in the baseboard and join up with the frog wire underneath the board? Do you instead #2 reduce the bulk with bare solid core runs until you get to the part that actually needs to flex?

. Space is very tight - something like 2.5mm between sleepers. How much praying is involved when soldering through that gap to reach the point blade?

. What's the best orientation to solder the wire end onto the blade? I would guess in-line with it.

. What is the smallest gauge of wire that could work? AWG 24 is rated at 3.0 amps, AWG 26 is rated at 1.8 amps, and at a guess 1.8 amps is ample by some margin since the run is short and you are doubling up on the point blade (unless the blade breaks contact.) and that's all backed by dropper-ridden track anyway. Smaller is obviously less bulk sitting underneath the point, so what is the smallest?

 

Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc...

 

So... If you are a blade bonder (and I know some of you are 🙂,) how exactly do you do it?

 

Bonus points if you throw in a pic or two of your finished masterpieces.

[peterm1]

I don't have experience of N gauge points, but I use Tortoise motors. This enables me to solder the joints between the  point blade and frog rail.

 

I use what ever is at hand, usually a bit of wire insulation to hold the blades central. The Tortoise motors are powerful enough to do the job and you never have to worry about wires breaking with the movement of the blades.

 

I don't know if this would help with solenoids.

[jamesed]

I don't really understand this thread.  You have already received good advice in your previous thread including advice that is specific to your application using Cobalt point motors.  In any case, with a Unifrog point it's all irrelevant anyway. The whole point of Unifrogs is that the blades are already bonded out of the box. You can see that in the picture you have posted, therefore any further modification is completely unnecessary.  You even already have a frog wire attached (which will need extending) for wiring straight to either S1-frog or S2C on your Cobalt IP Digital. Just remove the spring from the points, extend the frog wire (and maybe add a bit of heat shrink over the bare wire) and you're good to go. 

[n9]

8 hours ago, peterm1 said:

I don't have experience of N gauge points, but I use Tortoise motors. This enables me to solder the joints between the  point blade and frog rail.

 

I use what ever is at hand, usually a bit of wire insulation to hold the blades central. The Tortoise motors are powerful enough to do the job and you never have to worry about wires breaking with the movement of the blades.

 

I don't know if this would help with solenoids.

 

1 hour ago, jamesed said:

I don't really understand this thread.  You have already received good advice in your previous thread including advice that is specific to your application using Cobalt point motors.  In any case, with a Unifrog point it's all irrelevant anyway. The whole point of Unifrogs is that the blades are already bonded out of the box. You can see that in the picture you have posted, therefore any further modification is completely unnecessary.  You even already have a frog wire attached (which will need extending) for wiring straight to either S1-frog or S2C on your Cobalt IP Digital. Just remove the spring from the points, extend the frog wire (and maybe add a bit of heat shrink over the bare wire) and you're good to go. 

Thank you chaps, but perhaps I haven't explained clearly.

 

What I'm asking has nothing to do with point motors, it's not advice I've received before, and it's not specifically to do with Unifrogs, although I have used an image of a Unifrog illustratively to give people unfamiliar with Peco points an idea of what Code 55 points look like.

 

This pic shows the connections I'm looking to make, and my post is asking how those that do this, approach it. It's about having a fail safe for the pivot connections.

 

 

 

(All that Unifrog wiring is coming out on my points - I'm converting them all to Electrofrog)

Edited November 9, 2023 by n9

[meil]

They are already connected if you look. Prove it with a multi meter.

[scottystitch]

I think what the OP is talking about is to do with the fact that the electrical connection between the moving switch blades (yellow) and the static rails (green) is through the pivot points.  It was suggested on the other thread that high resistance could set up in this pivot/electrical connection.  My understanding is that the OP is seeking advice on adding bonding wires between green and yellow to pre-empt any continuity issues as the turnout ages. Is that right @n9?

 

If so, I'm not sure it's ever come up that anyone does that, although I'm sure the law of averages would suggest that someone somewhere must have?

 

Best

 

Scott.

Edited November 9, 2023 by scottystitch

[n9]

12 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

I think what the OP is talking about is to do with the fact that the electrical connection between the moving switch blades (yellow) and the static rails (green) is through the pivot points.  It was suggested on the other thread that high resistance could set up in this pivot/electrical connection.  My understanding is that the OP is seeking advise on adding bonding wires between green and yellow to pre-empt any continuity issues as the turnout ages. Is that right @n9?

 

If so, I'm not sure it's ever come up that anyone does that, although I'm sure the law of averages would suggest that someone somewhere must have?

 

Best

 

Scott.

Yes, this is exactly it! Thank you Scott. Unless I completely misunderstood, I believe it's what @WIMorrison was suggesting here in that other post: