Newcastle Central Station - Signal Identity - 1970s

[RBAGE]

I bought a map from the NLS, enlarged it to about 4mm scale and intend to use it with the bendy stick and pencil method. Once drawn, I'll then have to work out the isolations for the crossings.

Imagine that after quite a bit less than 10 pints of Broon.

[bécasse]

3 hours ago, johndon said:

 

Just the one that is the background of the Templot image I posted (and even that isn't as high as I would have liked) but I can't remember what year it was from, it is on the National Library of Scotland site.  Compared to some other places, there appears to be very little high resolution mapping of the North East available.

The NLS does have end-of-Victorian-era town plans at a much higher resolution for Newcastle although unfortunately the  "crossings" area does come at the junction of several maps (all of which are available). These may be for a much earlier period but the very complexity of the p&c means that it can't have changed much over time.

[RBAGE]

22 minutes ago, bécasse said:

The NLS does have end-of-Victorian-era town plans at a much higher resolution for Newcastle although unfortunately the  "crossings" area does come at the junction of several maps (all of which are available). These may be for a much earlier period but the very complexity of the p&c means that it can't have changed much over time.

Hello Belgique,

I think the map I'm using is the one you refer to and is the one we are having trouble with Templot. When it is enlarged the detail becomes quite indistinct so that applying trackwork is a bit approximate. But as I said earlier, it will be an impression of Newcastle so for me approximate is good enough. The operational interest is more important to me than absolute integrity.

Thanks,

Bob

[Michael Hodgson]

The crossings (often the view from the Castle Keep) were always a popular choice for postcards from Newcastle

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374272199488

https://www.flickr.com/photos/62532775@N03/8665476114

https://www.zazzle.co.uk/old_postcard_newcastle_on_tyne_railway_crossing-239007008285975394?trchd=true

https://www.akpool.co.uk/postcards/31879092-postcard-newcastle-upon-tyne-england-groesster-bahnuebergang-der-welt

 

I believe the diamonds were subject to significant wear, and needed fairly frequent replacement.  I think problems finding a slot for such work were a factor behind the rationalisation of the layout.  It was a feature the town was quite proud of.  Presumably the company had detailed drawings, which could conceivably have survived, the sort of thing that would have appealed to the old Museum of Science & Engineering on the Town Moor.  That closed years ago but has been replaced by something called the Discovery Museum which I've never visited so I don't know if it still has railway items  - I think the early locos were dispersed.

[The Stationmaster]

I've only paid a brief visit to teh Discovery Museum and part of it was clsed anyway which didn't help but in the time we had I was too interested in 'Turbinia' (yes, the real thing) and associated items to go looking for railway objects.

[RBAGE]

On 22/11/2023 at 09:34, johndon said:

 

Whilst I'd like to hope I've got quite a bit of the latter, I certainly haven't got the other two although I have got quite far with the East end of the station in Templot...

 

Hello John,

I've started laying timbers for Castle Junction which is quite therapeutic one you start. 

Once done, and before adding rails, I need to think about isolations. Had you given it any thought in your planning.

I don't know if I might be over thinking it but I plan to isolate each diamond from each other, then have four isolated section in each diamond.

Any thoughts? 

Anyone?

The next conundrum will be operation.

[johndon]

I'll admit to not having given it any thought.  This was more an exercise in the use of Templot rather than the production of a workable layout.

[RBAGE]

2 hours ago, johndon said:

I'll admit to not having given it any thought.  This was more an exercise in the use of Templot rather than the production of a workable layout.

Thanks John. I'm sure I'll get a bite from someone else.

 

Sounds like you had a great weekend at the NEC. Well to the team.

[johndon]

16 minutes ago, RBAGE said:

Sounds like you had a great weekend at the NEC. Well to the team.

 

Thanks, we had a very good weekend although I've come back with a rather bad dose of 'man flu' that I still can't get rid of.

[Curlew]

Found this on the Internet man moons ago. May be useful. There appears to be a whole publication on the subject mentioned in the notes at the bottom.

[Michael Hodgson]

Are you modelling the track in cast manganese too?  😄

I believe this stuff has caused problems from time to time because its properties means it can't be craned electro-magnetically.

[RBAGE]

5 hours ago, Curlew said:

Found this on the Internet man moons ago. May be useful. There appears to be a whole publication on the subject mentioned in the notes at the bottom.

 

25 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Are you modelling the track in cast manganese too?  😄

I believe this stuff has caused problems from time to time because its properties means it can't be craned electro-magnetically.

I started my response to the drawings of the cast components. It became quite lengthy and while referring to some reference pilot error crept in and I lost the lot. I didn’t go back to it for a while, but here I am.

considering the 92 cast components, I’m pleased that my layout will be based on the 1983 remodelled junction. 
My layout is subject to some license. If you look at the last drawing of the cast components, post 1983 something similar remained. This being beyond my capability with the risk that electrical isolation would be a challenge too far, I decided to re-align the junction so that it doesn’t exist on my model. 

[4069]

On 02/12/2023 at 16:53, Curlew said:

Found this on the Internet man moons ago. May be useful. There appears to be a whole publication on the subject mentioned in the notes at the bottom.

That is a page from Andrew Dow's book The Railway: British Track since 1804, which was first published in 2014. No idea what it was doing on the internet, but it is a wonderful book.

[5BarVT]

On 02/12/2023 at 12:05, RBAGE said:

Hello John,

I've started laying timbers for Castle Junction which is quite therapeutic one you start. 

Once done, and before adding rails, I need to think about isolations. Had you given it any thought in your planning.

I don't know if I might be over thinking it but I plan to isolate each diamond from each other, then have four isolated section in each diamond.

Any thoughts? 

Anyone?

The next conundrum will be operation.

I think that’s the only way to do it.

Paul.

[Trestrol]

The crossings from platform 1 and 2 to the High Level Bridge were removed but can't remember when. These were were for North Tyne loop trains only. Also all the signal ID plates were black on white. I have an example somewhere from Sunderland which were the same 

[RBAGE]

White on black, certainly in the period I'm modelling.

The East end of the station was remodelled in 1983. I think that's when the fish dock and platforms were removed,

[RBAGE]

The first attempts. Yes, I'm running before I can walk but I have to do something interesting to do while I wait for the Spring and temperatures conducive to working in the shed.

The scissor crossing immediately West of Castle Junction, between the up and down goods lines.

 

 

And Castle Junction.

Still very much a work on progress.

With my limitations with Templot, I decided to enlarge a map (National Library of Scotland) to 4mm scale equivalent, tape it into one map and transfer the formation onto paper. Rough and ready but it should work.

All timbering in place and ready for chairs and rail.

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, RBAGE said:

White on black, certainly in the period I'm modelling.

The East end of the station was remodelled in 1983. I think that's when the fish dock and platforms were removed,

NE Region signal id plates were white lettering on black background

[Trestrol]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

NE Region signal id plates were white lettering on black background

Ok then explain this one? This is the plate from S52 signal. This was at the south end of Monkwearmouth railway bridge Sunderland heading north. As in the attached link.

https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/42643527709384285/

[RBAGE]

1 hour ago, Trestrol said:

Ok then explain this one? This is the plate from S52 signal. This was at the south end of Monkwearmouth railway bridge Sunderland heading north. As in the attached link.

https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/42643527709384285/

Interesting. 

Must have fallen off the post.

[Trestrol]

It was removed from the original post when it was scrapped when Sunderland was resignalled. I saw it and knew exactly what it was having seen it on many a 1960s photo.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Trestrol

[RBAGE]

26 minutes ago, Trestrol said:

It was removed from the original post when it was scrapped when Sunderland was resignalled. I saw it and knew exactly what it was having seen it on many a 1960s photo.

I recall a distance signal removed at Croxdale which I fancied. When I got up close I thought, how am I going to get this home on the bus.

[Trestrol]

The post had already been cut up and was in a skip when I liberated the plate.

[The Stationmaster]

On 06/12/2023 at 18:53, Trestrol said:

Ok then explain this one? This is the plate from S52 signal. This was at the south end of Monkwearmouth railway bridge Sunderland heading north. As in the attached link.

https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/42643527709384285/

All. depends when the signal was erected.  At some stage the NERegion seems to have changed between the two - possibly more than once.  Black on white seems common y to later schemes - possibly after regional amalagamation or maybe for some other reason?

[RBAGE]

Not exactly signalling but Castle Junction is getting there.

The check rail gap requirements for bog standard 00 gauge is a bit embarrassing. Hopefully, it won't be so obvious once the track is weathered.