ECML trackwork and signalling in mid-1950s

[BetweenTheTunnels]

Evening all,

A quick question if I may - im looking in the fullness of time to build a layout representing a little of the London end of the ECML in the mid-1950s.  I have little knowledge of trackwork, but am learning slowly.  Can anyone say whether the main lines and goods lines would have been flat bottomed rail or bullhead at that time. Im assuming the latter, but it is just a guess. 

 

Given the length of time that rail would last in sidings and platforms and turntables etc, Im assuming those would all be bullhead, but any advice would be welcomed.

 

Also can anyone tell me when the semaphores vanished between Kings Cross and Hatfield please?  I think Kings Cross was resignalled to colour light in the 1930s, but im not sure how far out of the 'Cross' that went?

 

Cheers

Richie

[Michael Hodgson]

11 minutes ago, BetweenTheTunnels said:

Also can anyone tell me when the semaphores vanished between Kings Cross and Hatfield please?  I think Kings Cross was resignalled to colour light in the 1930s, but im not sure how far out of the 'Cross' that went?

 

Cheers

Richie

Early to mid 1970s

 

Diagram of Kings Cross 1969 before resignalling shows the area it covered. 

PWOwen's site has a lot of interesting box diagrams, especially East of England, and much of the southern end of the ECML at various dates.

The Power Signal Box that replaced it ran a lot futher, handing over to a similar one, Peterborough PSB.

[beast66606]

54 minutes ago, BetweenTheTunnels said:

Also can anyone tell me when the semaphores vanished between Kings Cross and Hatfield please?  I think Kings Cross was resignalled to colour light in the 1930s, but im not sure how far out of the 'Cross' that went?

 

Cheers

Richie

 

Notices for resignalling of the ECML are in the Signal Record Society link below, generally areas were concentrated into one of the old signal boxes and then the relevant power box took over that area.

 

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/ArchiveSignals/brer.php

[Jeremy Cumberland]

1 hour ago, BetweenTheTunnels said:

Evening all,

A quick question if I may - im looking in the fullness of time to build a layout representing a little of the London end of the ECML in the mid-1950s.  I have little knowledge of trackwork, but am learning slowly.  Can anyone say whether the main lines and goods lines would have been flat bottomed rail or bullhead at that time. Im assuming the latter, but it is just a guess. 

 

Given the length of time that rail would last in sidings and platforms and turntables etc, Im assuming those would all be bullhead, but any advice would be welcomed.

 

Also can anyone tell me when the semaphores vanished between Kings Cross and Hatfield please?  I think Kings Cross was resignalled to colour light in the 1930s, but im not sure how far out of the 'Cross' that went?

 

Cheers

Richie

The Ladykillers was filmed in 1955 and features semaphore signals between Gasworks Tunnel and Copenhagen Tunnel. One of them has a starring role! Okay, so this one might have been a film set, but the many semaphores seen in the background are genuine.

[Michael Hodgson]

3 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

Okay, so this one might have been a film set,

Sadly it was.  I think the MRC's Copenhagen Fields layout frequently gets asked about that.

[BetweenTheTunnels]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Early to mid 1970s

 

Diagram of Kings Cross 1969 before resignalling shows the area it covered. 

PWOwen's site has a lot of interesting box diagrams, especially East of England, and much of the southern end of the ECML at various dates.

The Power Signal Box that replaced it ran a lot futher, handing over to a similar one, Peterborough PSB.

 

Michael,

Thats great thank you. I was hoping somebody would say that - as although I know colour lights were around in the steam days, Im not a fan on steam era layouts - at least with semaphores you can see them when they facing away from you!  Problem for me is that the period i want to model, is just 23 odd years before i was born!

 

Do you have a web address for PW Owen's website?

 

41 minutes ago, beast66606 said:

Notices for resignalling of the ECML are in the Signal Record Society link below, generally areas were concentrated into one of the old signal boxes and then the relevant power box took over that area.

 

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/ArchiveSignals/brer.php

 

DAS,

Wonderful, I had no idea such a Society (or website) existed. Im going to have a trawl!

 

22 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

The Ladykillers was filmed in 1955 and features semaphore signals between Gasworks Tunnel and Copenhagen Tunnel. One of them has a starring role! Okay, so this one might have been a film set, but the many semaphores seen in the background are genuine.

 

Jeremy,

Wonderful! I hadnt thought about that film - although I've heard reference to it many times in relation to the superb Copenhagen Fields layout

 

Thanks again guys.

 

Richie.

Edited November 26, 2023 by BetweenTheTunnels

[Michael Hodgson]

6 minutes ago, BetweenTheTunnels said:

 

Michael,

Thats great thank you. I was hoping somebody would say that - as although I know colour lights were around in the steam days, Im not a fan on steam era layouts - at least with semaphores you can see them when they facing away from you!  Problem for me is that the period i want to model, is just 23 odd years before i was born!

 

Do you have a web address for PW Owen's website?

 

 

DAS,

Wonderful, I had no idea such a Society (or website) existed. Im going to have a trawl!

 

 

Jeremy,

Wonderful! I hadnt thought about that film - although I've heard reference to it many times in relation to the superb Copenhagen Fields layout

 

Thanks again guys.

 

Richie.

Owen Stratford is a leading light on the Mid Norfolk Railway, and his site is on Flickr. 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/

 

Sorry, I thought I had posted his Kings Cross link above, but it obiviously failed to take

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/15990737357

 

The Signalling Record Society's web site is easier if you are member, but you can get very compressed images of layouts as a non-member.

 

John Hinson's site is also useful https://signalbox.org/, with a lot of signalbox diagrams of the whole country

 

 

 

[PMP]

15 hours ago, BetweenTheTunnels said:

 

 

Also can anyone tell me when the semaphores vanished between Kings Cross and Hatfield please?  I think Kings Cross was resignalled to colour light in the 1930s, but im not sure how far out of the 'Cross' that went?

 

Cheers

Richie

If it helps Hatfield still had semaphores in 1970, and it was around 1972 that WGC changed over to colour light signalling, prior to the electrification scheme and the building of the stabling sidings and flyover.

[Grovenor]

Kings Cross was colourght by 1967.

[BetweenTheTunnels]

@Grovenor

Thanks Keith,

I think the Cross went colour light quite early - bit like York - being resignalled in the 1930s if I remember rightly, but it was only the immediate station area.  As others have commented Belle Isle was still semaphore in 1955 when the Ladykillers film was done.  Lovely shots of 31s and Deltics too! I have a scan of an 'LNER resignalling' booklet, which details the use of colour light and that KX box had a minature lever frame in it, but unfortuantely no date - although the fact that it is LNER puts it before 1948.

 

Does anyone know the answer to the bullhead or flat bottomed rail query?

 

Richie