Recreating St Bees station and a portion of the Cumbrian Coast line between 2017 and 2018

[Chimer]

1 hour ago, jools1959 said:

 

Hi there,

 

Thanks for your input, much appreciated but I think your plan in a lot of ways is very similar to my original plan, unfortunately, which is what I'm struggling with.

 

That's 'cos I thought your original idea was a pretty good one.  But this way you don't lose a quarter of your available visible run to turnback sidings.

[TravisM]

8 minutes ago, Chimer said:

 

That's 'cos I thought your original idea was a pretty good one.  But this way you don't lose a quarter of your available visible run to turnback sidings.

Oh okay, I wasn’t being hypercritical, just thought you hadn’t seen my first, well, second plan.  I’m still struggling with how to get the best with the available space, it’s becoming a bit of a nightmare as a lot of people have come up with really good ideas and constructive criticism, which to be honest is starting to cloud the issue 

[Harlequin]

Hi Jools,

 

You could easily add an upper level to laser-cut kit baseboards. You just need some upstands, all the same height, some bits of wood or ply for bracing, and some ply for the upper trackbed. One problem with an upper level, though, is that you then have to construct two door-crossings...

 

However, laser-cut kit baseboards might not be the best idea in the first place: To represent a railway running along the coast (or beside a river) you really want to show ground level falling away from the track bed.

 

How long is the longest train you would realistically run? If it's less than, say, 3ft6 then it would safely fit onto a manageable cassette.

 

Cassettes would solve a lot of problems in this small space:

• Give you more stock storage than you could ever fit into the plan as loops or sidings.
• Cassettes would be stacked on racks above or below the railway making use of the vertical space in the small room.
• Transfer trains between levels (if you have levels).
• Help to turn whole trains or just locos.
• Eliminate the need for pointwork leading into storage sidings/loops, thus giving more room for scenery.
• They could even span the doorway, becoming the lifting sections for access. Killing two birds with one stone.

 

[Cruachan]

40 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

How long is the longest train you would realistically run? If it's less than, say, 3ft6 then it would safely fit onto a manageable cassette.

A class 37 plus 4 mark 2s measures 132cm, or 4' 4".

Edited December 28, 2023 by Cruachan

[TravisM]

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Jools,

 

You could easily add an upper level to laser-cut kit baseboards. You just need some upstands, all the same height, some bits of wood or ply for bracing, and some ply for the upper trackbed. One problem with an upper level, though, is that you then have to construct two door-crossings...

 

However, laser-cut kit baseboards might not be the best idea in the first place: To represent a railway running along the coast (or beside a river) you really want to show ground level falling away from the track bed.

 

How long is the longest train you would realistically run? If it's less than, say, 3ft6 then it would safely fit onto a manageable cassette.

 

Cassettes would solve a lot of problems in this small space:

• Give you more stock storage than you could ever fit into the plan as loops or sidings.
• Cassettes would be stacked on racks above or below the railway making use of the vertical space in the small room.
• Transfer trains between levels (if you have levels).
• Help to turn whole trains or just locos.
• Eliminate the need for pointwork leading into storage sidings/loops, thus giving more room for scenery.
• They could even span the doorway, becoming the lifting sections for access. Killing two birds with one stone.

 

 

Hi Phil,

 

My main problem, apart from space is the ability to construct a decent baseboard, the 'big C' has robbed me of being able to stand for long periods or hold a saw for very long, which basically leaves me with laser cut boards.  I can assemble them without much issue and with Tim Horn's help, have them made to fit exactly.  The falling ground to the beach/sea had been considered and I had considered Woodland Scenic foam boards to give me the height difference.

 

The hatch and hidden sidings would be built at the same height as the top of the foam boards, so the main scenic baseboards would be a few inches lower than the hatch and sidings, so the track would all be at the same level, if that makes sense?  As @Cruachan said, my longest train will either be a Class 37 and 4 Mk2's, giving a total length of 4ft 4ins or a pair of Class 37's, top and tailing 3 Mk2's, which I assume would be the same length, so cassettes are out.  Also, given the way my back and balance is, cassettes are possibly too unwieldly for me.

[TravisM]

I've finally decided to model the single line section along the coast, probably a generic section, with nowhere in particular in mind.  I'm going to see Tim Horn on Saturday, to discuss my baseboard requirements, and I know it will be expensive, but so be it.  To be honest, I'm not really that bothered about shunting, but I do want to see my trains running, rather than sitting in boxes.

 

Edited January 3 by jools1959
Spelling

[TravisM]

A friend of mine suggested that I should add a small halt, such as Braystones or Nethertown along the south section, just before the doorway hatch.  I think it might be a good idea, but after looking at pictures on Flickr or on Google maps, I can’t work out the platform lengths.  
 

Would it be safe to say that the platform could accommodate a single Class 156, but nothing bigger, or are they shorter than that?  Possibly only a single Class 142/153 could stop within the platform length, or if a 156 was used, the rear car would overhang the end of the platform?

 

Also because of their short platform lengths, would the loco hauled trains run nonstop through those two stations and only the units stop there?

[Jeremy Cumberland]

They are both request stops only served by a handful of trains a day, and the loco-hauleds didn't stop at either. The platforms are reasonably long, Braystones probably holding 4 coaches, although the northern half is very overgrown, and Nethertown probably holds 3, but both are low. Both statons now have a short raised section, and I expect that they are worked front door only (it's been a while since I've been on a train that stopped). The raised sections are recent, though, and I not sure whether they were there in your era. Before the raised sections, there were wooden steps, probably also worked front door only. Nethertown has the remains of a second platform.

[Cruachan]

The Sectional Appendix describes the operational platform length at Braystones as 68 metres, and Nethertown as 51 metres. A 2-car class 156 unit measures 46 metres, for comparative reference.

Edited January 4 by Cruachan

[Jeremy Cumberland]

I must admit, I tend to think in terms of coaches being 57ft rather than 23m. 😀

[Chimer]

At the risk of flogging a dead horse, my last idea + your last idea =

 

 

 

[Cruachan]

5 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

I must admit, I tend to think in terms of coaches being 57ft rather than 23m. 😀

Average vehicle lengths have certainly increased over the decades.

[TravisM]

7 hours ago, Chimer said:

At the risk of flogging a dead horse, my last idea + your last idea =

 

 

 

 

As much as I like the plan, I don't like hidden sidings, mainly because I have mobility issues and reaching over to retrieve a derailed loco or piece of rolling stock, could be difficult for me.  It was certainly something too think about.

[TravisM]

Had a little play, and came up with this idea.  A friend of mine suggested getting rid of the lift up section and getting a office chair with wheels that I could use, instead of crawling under and damaging my back further.

 

 

[TravisM]

Had a discussion with several others on here, and they thought that the single section would look good but it might be better operationally, to have look as if it's going onto a double track section with possibly operating signals.  The storage sidings would be between the scenic breaks, and the longest siding would be able to hold either a Class 37 and 4 Mk2's, or 3 Mk2's, top and tailed between 2 Class 37's.

 

I’ve spoken to several other people about the layout being ‘boring’ and one friend, co-owner of Sidney Gardens said he said that his layout had no stations or sidings for shunting, but still interesting.  He also mentioned that someone modelled the Dawlish line that follows the coast to huge acclaim.

 

 

Edited January 8 by jools1959
Added information

[woodenhead]

On 06/01/2024 at 21:53, jools1959 said:

Had a little play, and came up with this idea.  A friend of mine suggested getting rid of the lift up section and getting a office chair with wheels that I could use, instead of crawling under and damaging my back further.

 

If you have mobility issues already then to me having a lift out or lift up section is paramount - a chair with wheels might help you get in and out, but what about if you have to lug other stuff in and out.  You really want a clear entrance and exit scenario for yourself and others, what if you have an incident within the well of the railway and you need to be taken out.

 

I know it sounds morbid or far fetched, but as you get older and if you have any existing injuries/disabilities you have to plan around them and consider the risks.

[TravisM]

9 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

If you have mobility issues already then to me having a lift out or lift up section is paramount - a chair with wheels might help you get in and out, but what about if you have to lug other stuff in and out.  You really want a clear entrance and exit scenario for yourself and others, what if you have an incident within the well of the railway and you need to be taken out.

 

I know it sounds morbid or far fetched, but as you get older and if you have any existing injuries/disabilities you have to plan around them and consider the risks.

 

After talking to Tim Horn who's building my baseboards, it was agreed to keep the lifting hatch in because, as you say, in time, the hatch will be essential rather than just a useful thing.  You will notice on my latest plan, it's been kept in.

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Had a discussion with several others on here, and they thought that the single section would look good but it might be better operationally, to have look as if it's going onto a double track section with possibly operating signals.  The storage sidings would be between the scenic breaks, and the longest siding would be able to hold either a Class 37 and 4 Mk2's, or 3 Mk2's, top and tailed between 2 Class 37's.

 

I’ve spoken to several other people about the layout being ‘boring’ and one friend, co-owner of Sidney Gardens said he said that his layout had no stations or sidings for shunting, but still interesting.  He also mentioned that someone modelled the Dawlish line that follows the coast to huge acclaim.

 

 

All your sidings now face the same way. Is that deliberate and, if so, why?

[TravisM]

46 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

All your sidings now face the same way. Is that deliberate and, if so, why?

Because I’m an idiot and hadn’t noticed.  I’ll change them later.

[TravisM]

I think this might be better.  It's not perfect, but better than it was.

 

 

[ColinK]

I like the loops, gives more options. You could add a short spur for a loco or 153 on the bottom loop, going towards to lifting flap.

[Chimer]

I don't think you're gaining anything with that double track idea.  Anything that reverses in the sidings area is going to emerge running "wrong line"  for the six inches you can see before the line singles.  A passing loop on the single track out in the country might be better.

[woodenhead]

20 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I’ve spoken to several other people about the layout being ‘boring’ and one friend, co-owner of Sidney Gardens said he said that his layout had no stations or sidings for shunting, but still interesting.  He also mentioned that someone modelled the Dawlish line that follows the coast to huge acclaim.

 

Stations begin to date a railway - the look of it, any sidings and that's before you think about furniture and the area surrounding and the simple space a railway station takes up.

 

Remove it and even if you have some sidings there is something more timeless about the scene (unless you have modern LED signals haha).  So then your simple Cumbrian layout can be modern with units, class 37s and 66/68s or you can go back to the 1970s with class 108s, class 25s, 40s and 47s or even back to transition from steam or earlier.  So much scope to do different things with no change to the scenery, just swap out the stock or just go rule 1.

[TravisM]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Stations begin to date a railway - the look of it, any sidings and that's before you think about furniture and the area surrounding and the simple space a railway station takes up.

 

Remove it and even if you have some sidings there is something more timeless about the scene (unless you have modern LED signals haha).  So then your simple Cumbrian layout can be modern with units, class 37s and 66/68s or you can go back to the 1970s with class 108s, class 25s, 40s and 47s or even back to transition from steam or earlier.  So much scope to do different things with no change to the scenery, just swap out the stock or just go rule 1.

 

To be honest, that's my kind of rational, why limit yourself to one era.  I'm starting off with 2017-18 because it's what I already have, but as I will have no vehicles or very few people (if any), I can easily backdate it.  I have a couple of Bachmann Jubilee's which I fancy running on the layout (I don't know if they did in the 60's).

[TravisM]

After talking with @class26 about his Far North Line layout and his use of a helix on the layout, so it got me thinking about using one on my Cumbrian Coast layout.  I know that a helix is a space eater, but if I can keep it to a 3rd radius, it won't be too big and most stock should be able to cope with it without issues.  Obviously it will be hidden behind a scenic board and the entrances will be hidden either with cuttings or a road bridge.

 

The section underneath will hold the hidden sidings and as most trains are either units or top and tailed trains, so don't need run a return loop, though there is a run around track if needed.  Any sensible suggestions would be welcome.

 

Edited January 11 by jools1959
Forgot to put plans in