Using Railtec Rivet Transfers on Brass

[Rustony]

I am currently assembling/bashing my first brass kit, and it's nearly time to apply the rivet decals and paint, however as this is my first time I am not sure the best order/way to do this.

 

My main question is whether I should apply the rivets straight to the brass before applying (Halfords etch) primer, or prime first. I often see the rivets applied directly to the metal, although a search of the forum suggests that they can be applied after the primer too, and this also removes the risk of the rivet detail being swamped by the primer. 

 

Secondly, regardless of whether the rivets are applied before or after the primer, how do I go about cleaning/prepping the model after applying the rivets before the next layer of paint? Would the decals or the softening/setting solution leave some residue that needs to be removed before the next layer of paint is applied? I've already had to strip some parts back as I didn't degrease before applying the etch primer so it scratched off easily - I have IPA to degrease with next time, but am concerned that this may damage the rivets or I may knock them off during cleaning.

 

For reference, I have Halfords etch primer, plus decal softener, decal fix, varnish (gloss, satin and matt) and acrylic airbrush paint (all Vallejo). Also Cif Cream cleaner and IPA for cleaning/degreasing before painting.

 

Thanks. 

[Daddyman]

I would definitely say apply after primer - for two reasons: one is that the transfers are designed to be used on paint; the second is that the primer coat may reveal where work still needs to be done to fill cracks or correct an imperfection in your modelling; once that's done, you'll have to make repairs and re-prime (easier to do locally with airbrush primer). If you need to do this, then you don't want to be removing and redoing rivets in the area to be repaired. 

 

My formula is Precision Paints' two-part primer applied by airbrush (no chance of flooding as there is with an aerosol, and more durable than Halford's). On top of that the model gets gloss varnish locally on the areas to be riveted, so as to aid adhesion, then rivets. It's a difficult question how you wash the model between rivets and topcoat; I suspect most people don't bother, but I think you should - there'll be all sorts of fluff and muck on the model. So I apply the rivets with a water-and-PVA mix (as suggested by Railtec), and then once that's dry, I paint D-Limonene over the riveted area. When that's dry the model can be washed, and then topcoat applied. (Don't wash in Cif after any paint has gone on - use that for bare brass only; use soap and water for cleaning a model with any paint on.) 

 

I must say, though, even with this recipe I still lose some rivets - literally a question of rinse and repeat - so will be interested to see what others say. I think the key is not getting the rivets too wet when applying them, but that's hard when you have to move them around around a lot to get them positioned correctly.  

Edited December 27, 2023 by Daddyman

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, Rustony said:

Would the decals or the softening/setting solution leave some residue that needs to be removed

I didn't read the instructions with my rivets but most @railtec-models transfers specifically say don't use decal softener.

 

I agree with Daddyman that best to prime and get a finish you are happy with first. There is carrier film between the rivets so I'd apply to a gloss finish - in fact I tend to float transfers onto wet acrylic gloss. Then seal with gloss so no matting agent gets underneath although that's less relevant as you are painting over.

[Rustony]

Thanks for the responses.

So, if I've got this right, the process is:

1. Clean with Cif and degreases
2. Prime (check for flaws, correct if necessary)
3. Gloss varnish in areas to be riveted
4. Apply rivets (cut into strips, briefly dip in water, paint watered down PVA over the areas to be riveted, apply rivet strips)
5. Seal with gloss
6. Clean
7. Continue with painting other layers.

What does the D-Limonene do?

[Daddyman]

4 should be: briefly dip transfers in watered-down PVA - you're using that liquid as the releasing liquid. 

For me, 5 is seal with D-Limonene, no need to seal with gloss. (I just do this extra seal as belt and braces as I've found it necessary in the past, but for the last ones I applied a couple of days ago the PVA mix was enough. Up to you.) Allow D-L to dry (24 hours?) then wash carefully, and dry, then start  top coats. 

[The Fatadder]

I haven’t used the Railtec product as I’m still working through my stash of Archers rivets.  My approach was always to etch prime the brass, then apply the transfers, seal them with a coat of Klear then reprime and eventually paint.  
 

My bulldog was done a couple of years ago and is still fine

[Hal Nail]

To be honest it probably doesn't matter exactly how you seal them, whatever you usually do with transfers and are comfortable with.  

 

I didn't use pva - is that just to aid adhesion before sealing?

 

 

[Daddyman]

On 28/12/2023 at 21:24, Hal Nail said:

I didn't use pva - is that just to aid adhesion before sealing?

 

Think so. Recommended by Railtec. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Daddyman

[Hal Nail]

On 29/12/2023 at 20:16, Daddyman said:

Thinks so. Recommended by Railtec. 

I found the instructions when clearing up yesterday. It implies this isn't really necessary and mine stayed put just like any other sealed transfers. The difference to say numbers, is you are painting over rivets, which would seal them even more, so I'd think the critical bit is making sure any carrier film sits down flat on a gloss base, so it doesn't show up after.

 

The diagonal strapping on this has Railtec rivets on, albeit styrene strip, not brass.

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Hal Nail

[Daddyman]

34 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

I found the instructions when clearing up yesterday. It implies this isn't really necessary and mine stayed put just like any other sealed transfers. The difference to say numbers, is you are painting over rivets, which would seal them even more, so I'd think the critical bit is making sure any carrier film sits down flat on a gloss base, so it doesn't show up after.

 

The diagonal strapping on this has Railtec rivets on, albeit styrene strip, not brass.

 

 

It's true that they'll be painted over, yes, but before that, I always wash models, and that's where I find rivets going astray, so I use the belt of PVA and the braces of D-Limonene. 

 

Nice wagon!  

[Hal Nail]

6 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

It's true that they'll be painted over, yes, but before that, I always wash models, and that's where I find rivets going astray, so I use the belt of PVA and the braces of D-Limonene. 

 

Nice wagon!  

Cheers.

 

Yes good point re cleaning and I must admit I'd forgotten the brass element originally as reading several similar topics at the moment!

[Daddyman]

1 minute ago, Hal Nail said:

the brass element ... reading several similar topics at the moment!

Mine are on primer, not brass! 

[Rustony]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

 

On 27/12/2023 at 17:29, Hal Nail said:

.... Then seal with gloss so no matting agent gets underneath although that's less relevant as you are painting over.....

If I sealed them with a gloss coat, would this show though upper layers, or will it completely cover up the gloss?

[Hal Nail]

44 minutes ago, Rustony said:

Thanks for all the input everyone.

 

If I sealed them with a gloss coat, would this show though upper layers, or will it completely cover up the gloss?

Not sure, I only did discrete area so wasn't an issue. I'd pop a couple on a spare scrap and test it I think.

 

Applying normal transfers, I tend to try and only seal the smallest bit, ie just the transfer or maybe a plank if its a wagon number (purely as i dont like spraying varnish, having messed up a decent paint finish once too often!). I often find the patch then attracts the weathering differently and shows up so I'm in two minds about having to do the lot each time.