TT120 scale Class 313

[Blefuscu]

 

Here we have the beginnings of the 313 EMU... just a rough motor end at present.

 

So far I have trawled flickr, focusing on images from the early eighties.  I also have the diagrams from Vehicle Diagram Book No. 210, Electric Multiple Units and some livery diagrams from Revolution Trains. The diagrams don't seem to quite agree with each other.

The BR livery makes the shape of the vehicle hard to read in places - luckily some of the later liveries seem to be clearer. With their recent withdrawl, there has been quite an abundance of photos of those too.

I've just been working on the large roof mounted air intakes from the early units. I'm not happy with them yet. I'm not sure which units had these either. From the images I have found, definitely 001-009 have them, but I have seen the smaller intakes on 313058 from this period too.

No sign of any square headlights yet... these must have happened later.

I notice there's a mix of orange/grey/black horns among the early units too. That obviously won't make any difference to the digital modelling - but it's a nice detail when the real modelling begins.

[andrewshimmin]

I'm really interested in this. I'd be quite keen on doing a Class 507 / 508. Ideally in 3mm not 1:120, but that's another question. Keep us posted!

[Blefuscu]

57 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

Keep us posted!

 

Will do! 

 

I've had a shocking cold since Xmas, so progress has been slow and steady. A lot of cleaning up and a few adjustyments are left to do.

Wall thickness at 1:120 is approx 1mm so it should comfortably scale up to 3mm without becoming too chunky.

 

These are the versions I'm working on;

large roof vents - round headlight [early units]

small roof vents - round headlight [later units]

small roof vents - square headlight [privatisation]

 

I'm just flicking through "Motive Power Recognition 2" and it looks like the 507/508s have a different headlight, so I  should probably add that. I haven't looked at those classes, or the 314s, very closely so let me know if there are any only differences and I'll try to reflect them. For my own use, I'm focusing on early eighties North London.

 

I was thinking about different versions for the handrails too around 1982 (??) the 313s seemed to get longer handrails at the ends, like 314/507/508s.

On reflection, however, I think it's going to be better to add those with wire. 

[Blefuscu]

 

This doesn't look like much of an update but all the parts are joined together and printable now, so I should be able to upload it soon.

(I had hoped to be finishing it weeks ago, but this January seems to have been a bit uphill.)

 

I'm printing this 1976 version now... and I have 1hr 20m remaining on the printer. I will check it in the morning now  but, so far, it looks encouraging.

All the windows and a few details like the horns, wiper and pantograph insulators are separate parts.

There is no pantograph. (I am temporarily raiding an ICE3 for my pantograph... it isn't quite right, but will do until I find anything better)

I added the long rails by the drivers door to the 3D model, but I kept a clean version in case. They are nestled up against that door frame and I think they will look pretty reasonable in 1:120 or 2mm, and certainly good enough for my own use. Perhaps, the clean version may be more useful for 3mm or larger. The intention is to add front rails with flattened wire (or staples). 

 

If this model works out ok I will start preparing the other versions - although I won't be printing those as I'm really focusing around 1980. The changes are relatively minor though, so if this prints well I am confident the others will be fine.

 

[bradfordbuffer]

On 24/01/2024 at 11:37, andrewshimmin said:

I'm really interested in this. I'd be quite keen on doing a Class 507 / 508. Ideally in 3mm not 1:120, but that's another question. Keep us posted!

I'll have to say me too! Square headlight version ...don't know if they had big roof vents...I'm in 3mm too

[Blefuscu]

9 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

...don't know if they had big roof vents

I haven't seen anything with a square headlight and big vents.

I have looked at a lot of images now and have come to the conclusion it was only the first ten or twelve 313's.

 

I've uploaded what I've got so far to here:

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/class-313-emu-tt120-rescaleable-to-2mm-3mm-n-ho-oo-rail

 

but it doesn't have a square headlight yet. I'll add the other versions soon, such that they will all be bundled in the same download... it shouldn't really take me long to tidy the other versions up... I just need to find some time....

[bradfordbuffer]

5 hours ago, Blefuscu said:

I haven't seen anything with a square headlight and big vents.

I have looked at a lot of images now and have come to the conclusion it was only the first ten or twelve 313's.

 

I've uploaded what I've got so far to here:

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/class-313-emu-tt120-rescaleable-to-2mm-3mm-n-ho-oo-rail

 

but it doesn't have a square headlight yet. I'll add the other versions soon, such that they will all be bundled in the same download... it shouldn't really take me long to tidy the other versions up... I just need to find some time....

The 313 looks realy good I will be purchasing down load tonight am I am impressed by your skill level ...so am I right in thinking the updates for square head light and small vents will be in with original cost of down load? And you be doing bogie sides and will you be doing traction control boxes for underframe....looks like I will also have a 313 between break vans en route to works! 

What's next on to do list ...?

 

Did try to send messages but said messages blocked

Graham

[Blefuscu]

2 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Did try to send messages but said messages blocked

Oh, I don't think I have actively blocked anything 😕

 

Thanks for your kind words I try to be as diligent as I can. All the updates should be available as they appear once you own the model. I also get the option to send an email alert to everyone who owns it, so they don't miss the update.

 

Yes, once I have covered the body versions I will be working on the chassis and control boxes. This work will be carried out while I try and fit my ICE3 bogies and chassis... which obviously won't look right as they, but I will keep the parts fairly generic so they can be adapted to other projects.

 

I'm my haul of 313 imagery I'm often surprised at the places they have turned up... mostly on route to works I guess.

 

Next on my list are some carriages, so I have something for my class 55 to pull. I'm also looking at trying to print some templot track templates.

 

Michael

[bradfordbuffer]

1 hour ago, Blefuscu said:

Oh, I don't think I have actively blocked anything 😕

 

Thanks for your kind words I try to be as diligent as I can. All the updates should be available as they appear once you own the model. I also get the option to send an email alert to everyone who owns it, so they don't miss the update.

 

Yes, once I have covered the body versions I will be working on the chassis and control boxes. This work will be carried out while I try and fit my ICE3 bogies and chassis... which obviously won't look right as they, but I will keep the parts fairly generic so they can be adapted to other projects.

 

I'm my haul of 313 imagery I'm often surprised at the places they have turned up... mostly on route to works I guess.

 

Next on my list are some carriages, so I have something for my class 55 to pull. I'm also looking at trying to print some templot track templates.

 

Michael

Looks like I will be on the slicer!

Good news about updates.

Ohhh mk 2a b c and d's? Can't wait? 

Have you seen the VGA silver van on cults3d nice model had to stretch hight and width to match drawing but a cracking model...printed in anycubic ABS type for w iron strength 

Keep the files coming I'll keep purchasing....although the 55 just out of area for me ...but then again saw use into NW on transpennine trains.

Many thanks 

G

[Blefuscu]

11 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Ohhh mk 2a b c and d's? Can't wait?

Yeah... although, to be honest, I'm feeling a little apprehensive about getting all these right. There aren't nearly as many good reference images of coaches.

The idea, generally, is to have a good library of staple coaches though.

For my own needs I'm starting with the mk2 TSO & FO  and mk1 RB & BG.... but, as you'd expect, I've seen a LOT of variations, so I'll be expanding from there.

My project is, with a bit of flexibility, based on Hornsey in 1980. So, at some point in the future I will also need a mk3 coach and the HST power cars... because I can't see myself affording the a full length Hornby set! Even through a limited ECML 1980 lens the number of ideas I have vastly exceeds the amount of time I have to model them.

 

I did see your posts on the VGA vans. They are looking great. I have not even thought about freight yet, other than as an excuse to model a class 40. (not sure how accurate that would be, I just want one). However, because I accidently did the 55 first, I've started with coaches.

 

Thanks for ordering the 313 model. I'd love to see it in 3mm (Once I have fitted the square headlight!). I wonder if I should have printing mine in 3mm. I do question the sanity of scratch building in this sort-of-commercial TT120 scale.

Edited February 6 by Blefuscu

[bradfordbuffer]

55 minutes ago, Blefuscu said:

Yeah... although, to be honest, I'm feeling a little apprehensive about getting all these right. There aren't nearly as many good reference images of coaches.

The idea, generally, is to have a good library of staple coaches though.

For my own needs I'm starting with the mk2 TSO & FO  and mk1 RB & BG.... but, as you'd expect, I've seen a LOT of variations, so I'll be expanding from there.

My project is, with a bit of flexibility, based on Hornsey in 1980. So, at some point in the future I will also need a mk3 coach and the HST power cars... because I can't see myself affording the a full length Hornby set! Even through a limited ECML 1980 lens the number of ideas I have vastly exceeds the amount of time I have to model them.

 

I did see your posts on the VGA vans. They are looking great. I have not even thought about freight yet, other than as an excuse to model a class 40. (not sure how accurate that would be, I just want one). However, because I accidently did the 55 first, I've started with coaches.

 

Thanks for ordering the 313 model. I'd love to see it in 3mm (Once I have fitted the square headlight!). I wonder if I should have printing mine in 3mm. I do question the sanity of scratch building in this sort-of-commercial TT120 scale.

A few wagons like plate and 16t rust buckets on thingiverse from iron mink designs are good for 80s era....and he has just put up a gypsum hopper!

[bradfordbuffer]

13 minutes ago, bradfordbuffer said:

A few wagons like plate and 16t rust buckets on thingiverse from iron mink designs are good for 80s era....and he has just put up a gypsum hopper!

I do have a set of up close and personal mk2a and b photos taken at Carnforth yard a few years back  showing buffer ends and such like if you want that sort of reference material or If you need some reference matteretial just ask if I don't have i may know some one who will...only to glad to help.

G

[Blefuscu]

2 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

iron mink designs

I'll look out for those, thanks. I get quite absorbed in what I'm working on, that I forget to look up. I'm more aware of what's happening on cults3D, I guess because it's the platform I use and when anyone likes, follows, or even buys something I have a look at what else they have downloaded... this, I find, is remarkably more effective than their search engine. By the time I do get to thinking about freight I think there will a lot of really good resources out there.

 

What did you use for wheels on your vans? For tt size 12mm wheels I was looking at the Tillig packs of 50... they look reasonably priced... until I add tax and postage!

 

BTW, on that note - have you printed any of those 70/80s cars from cults3D? I have been looking at a few of those myself.

 

2 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

a set of up close and personal mk2a and b photos

Yes please! I haven't started my image trawling proper yet but details are invaluable, particularly roof details. However good profile images of side and end elevations are also really hard to find. Obviously I have the BR diagrams too... but, I find they only get me so far.

[bradfordbuffer]

48 minutes ago, Blefuscu said:

I'll look out for those, thanks. I get quite absorbed in what I'm working on, that I forget to look up. I'm more aware of what's happening on cults3D, I guess because it's the platform I use and when anyone likes, follows, or even buys something I have a look at what else they have downloaded... this, I find, is remarkably more effective than their search engine. By the time I do get to thinking about freight I think there will a lot of really good resources out there.

 

What did you use for wheels on your vans? For tt size 12mm wheels I was looking at the Tillig packs of 50... they look reasonably priced... until I add tax and postage!

 

BTW, on that note - have you printed any of those 70/80s cars from cults3D? I have been looking at a few of those myself.

 

Yes please! I haven't started my image trawling proper yet but details are invaluable, particularly roof details. However good profile images of side and end elevations are also really hard to find. Obviously I have the BR diagrams too... but, I find they only get me so far.

Yep done escort van and tranny I didn't allow room between plate and build but it was just a test there rather good....mirrors came off in wash but was expected....plenty of 1:120 road stuff from Europe 

Nice set of buffers on cults too!

I will get into loft and dig out photos at some point and get them to you.

G

[Blefuscu]

6 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

mirrors came off in wash

 

When I had a go at a 120 car I decided not to bother modelling the wing mirrors - similar thing happened to the wipers I tried to print for the 313. 
Those bodies look good though! Transit van is classic.

 

Hopefully you got a message/email from cults3d about the new versions I just uploaded?

 

 

 

 

 

[bradfordbuffer]

48 minutes ago, Blefuscu said:

 

When I had a go at a 120 car I decided not to bother modelling the wing mirrors - similar thing happened to the wipers I tried to print for the 313. 
Those bodies look good though! Transit van is classic.

 

Hopefully you got a message/email from cults3d about the new versions I just uploaded?

 

 

 

 

 

you don't hang around ....yep just looked updates there tar very much.

for scaling %  i use the scale chart produced by another 3mm member but this was done when British tt120 was not a thing ....question 00 to 3mm is 75% Ho to 3mm is 86% etc what would you recommend for tt120 to 3mm and 4mm?

G

[Blefuscu]

Ah, well... I did have everything modelled I just needed to join them together and clean up all the boolean operations! The other bits will take a bit longer!

 

I work in a lot of scales, particularly for road things using the weird scale 1:14, so I do it mathematically. I multiply by the source scale to get myself back to 1:1 and then divide by the target scale.

 

To get from 1:120 to 1:100, I'd multiply by 120 and divide by 101.6. So, by that reckoning I think you should be scaling by 1.18 or 118%

 

As well as scaling it in blender or [insert favourite slicer here]  I get the dimensions of the model and scale them in excel to do a sanity check. Then I can be sure the dimensions match what I'm expecting. A virtual 10mm cube is a good thing to have lying around as a benchmark too, and known good models are useful too. For example, you could offer up the VGA wagon next to your scaled 313 as a comparison.

[bradfordbuffer]

1 hour ago, Blefuscu said:

Ah, well... I did have everything modelled I just needed to join them together and clean up all the boolean operations! The other bits will take a bit longer!

 

I work in a lot of scales, particularly for road things using the weird scale 1:14, so I do it mathematically. I multiply by the source scale to get myself back to 1:1 and then divide by the target scale.

 

To get from 1:120 to 1:100, I'd multiply by 120 and divide by 101.6. So, by that reckoning I think you should be scaling by 1.18 or 118%

 

As well as scaling it in blender or [insert favourite slicer here]  I get the dimensions of the model and scale them in excel to do a sanity check. Then I can be sure the dimensions match what I'm expecting. A virtual 10mm cube is a good thing to have lying around as a benchmark too, and known good models are useful too. For example, you could offer up the VGA wagon next to your scaled 313 as a comparison.

The % for scale is what I want! The idea of 10x10 cube on slicer is a good idea. For the 507/8 the TSO needs the panto well removing but it's no big issue as can split from the other end cut and splice as its two full windows

 

You mentioned wheels a few posts back ...the 3mm smallest is 8mm diameter (3ft 4inch in tt120) but as well the axel will need to be shortend to suit w irons...I saw on tt20 thread some Eastern Europe wheels where not over expensive 

[natterjack]

2 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

You mentioned wheels a few posts back ...the 3mm smallest is 8mm diameter (3ft 4inch in tt120) but as well the axel will need to be shortend to suit w irons...I saw on tt20 thread some Eastern Europe wheels where not over expensive 

FWIW you could check out available N Gauge tyres and print your own centres, ( slightly thinner tread than TT120 commercial and the better for it) eg;

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115292946314?var=415321829160

[bradfordbuffer]

2 hours ago, natterjack said:

FWIW you could check out available N Gauge tyres and print your own centres, ( slightly thinner tread than TT120 commercial and the better for it) eg;

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115292946314?var=415321829160

Thanks for response natterjack didn't know about the wheel rims...if I knew some one who could design 3d stl files!!🤔🤔 I and fellow 3mmers personally are well catered for in 3mm with wheels but still very intersting and may open possibilities for 14.2mm gauge wheels with the 2mm version.

G

[Blefuscu]

5 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

For the 507/8 the TSO needs the panto well removing but it's no big issue as can split from the other end

Sorry, thats an oversight on my part. I don't really know the 507. Ok, if you are happy to do that, I won't rush into action - but I shall put it on my to-do list.

 

3 hours ago, natterjack said:

N Gauge tyres

That's not a bad idea, thanks!

 

[bradfordbuffer]

10 minutes ago, Blefuscu said:

Sorry, thats an oversight on my part. I don't really know the 507. Ok, if you are happy to do that, I won't rush into action - but I shall put it on my to-do list.

 

That's not a bad idea, thanks!

 

As far as I remember 507/8 tso the same mirror image from both ends...don't know about the 4th tso that was removed before 508s came north...spare cars went in to different 3car southern sets looked daft as different hight roof

[Blefuscu]

https://www.muellerradsatz.de/p/100-tt-radsaetze-fuer-tillig-bttb-7-0-8-3mm-einseitig-8-3

 

They also looked interesting... I bet tax and shipping will be upsetting though.

[bradfordbuffer]

8 minutes ago, Blefuscu said:

https://www.muellerradsatz.de/p/100-tt-radsaetze-fuer-tillig-bttb-7-0-8-3mm-einseitig-8-3

 

They also looked interesting... I bet tax and shipping will be upsetting though.

12 euro to ship to UK.

 

Don't quote me but on another forum discussion about shapeways import charges...under 135 you may get away with it as vat has been charged at source I got delivery worth 120 no charge...!

Also bought sonic knife from 3djake 300+ from Austria no charge as they paid/was excluded in displayed price

[Blefuscu]

14 minutes ago, bradfordbuffer said:

12 euro to ship to UK.

 

Don't quote me but on another forum discussion about shapeways import charges...under 135 you may get away with it as vat has been charged at source I got delivery worth 120 no charge...!

Also bought sonic knife from 3djake 300+ from Austria no charge as they paid/was excluded in displayed price

I'm a bit nervous because I bought my ICE3 'on sale' on ebay... and then got stung with the tax and parcelfarce handling charge. 😂

 

That said, like you - i have been ok in the past.