System architecture advice please

[Nigelcliffe]

36 minutes ago, ngaugenic said:

That's great, thanks

 

And this works with dcc power on red and black?

 

NO!!!     You said you didn't want all the complication and expense of accessory decoders.  

The power supply (red and black in the diagrams) is   DC or AC.   ie. whatever the turnout motor specifies (MP1 in this case).  

 

 

You can switch the DCC power to frogs using the purple/green shown connecting to rails on the left of drawing. 

 

 

-  Nigel

 

 

[ngaugenic]

 

 

 

Quote

 

The power supply (red and black in the diagrams) is   DC or AC.   ie. whatever the turnout motor specifies (MP1 in this case).  

 

 

You can switch the DCC power to frogs using the purple/green shown connecting to rails on the left of drawing.

 

 

ok, that makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

[ColinK]

I just stumbled into this thread out of interest.  Thanks everyone for your contributions - I’ve learnt a lot.   I really like the wiring diagram that shows which way the point is set using LEDs wired by the switches, didn’t know you could do that, far easier than having wires running back from the point motors to the control panel.

 

All very useful as next week I have to wire up a friends DCC layout which has both 16.5mm tracks and 12mm tracks, including a section of dual gauge.

 

[Nigelcliffe]

2 hours ago, ColinK said:

I just stumbled into this thread out of interest.  Thanks everyone for your contributions - I’ve learnt a lot.   I really like the wiring diagram that shows which way the point is set using LEDs wired by the switches, didn’t know you could do that, far easier than having wires running back from the point motors to the control panel.

 

All very useful as next week I have to wire up a friends DCC layout which has both 16.5mm tracks and 12mm tracks, including a section of dual gauge.

 

 

The principle of LEDs in panels is fairly common, and is largely the same for any motor. 
The LEDs only tell you the switch position, wires back from the turnout tell you the motor has moved - its possible to operate a switch and a disconnected wire to the turnout motor means nothing has moved - so always ask whether the LED is actually adding anything over what a switch shows. 

 

There can be cases where a switch is used, and LEDs are added to indicate what's happening in other places affected by the switch.  The photo shows one I made earlier, part of a set for "Burntisland 1883" - the LEDs indicate the other half of each cross-over, controlled by the rotary switch with a large pointer.   But where switches don't control multiple turnouts (eg. yellow knob on left) there are no LEDs as the switch clearly indicates the route set.   
(3D printed switch knobs of my own design.  Panel is laser cut clear acrylic, with the lettering and coloured tracks lasered from behind into the cream base-colour on rear of acrylic. ).   

 

 

 

The exact detail of wiring depends on the turnout motor.   
The MP1 has a centre-common motor, and two other wires (one for each direction).   

Motors like the Cobalt-Analogue or the Tortoise  (or a different MTB motor) might have a two-wire reversing connection, which results in a different wiring arrangement.   
Servo motor control boards are different again.    
And so on.  

 

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

Edited January 17 by Nigelcliffe

[AndrueC]

1 hour ago, ColinK said:

I just stumbled into this thread out of interest.  Thanks everyone for your contributions - I’ve learnt a lot.   I really like the wiring diagram that shows which way the point is set using LEDs wired by the switches, didn’t know you could do that, far easier than having wires running back from the point motors to the control panel.

For what it's worth the Cobalt Alpha also avoids those wires for DCC. It's not clear (or I didn't find it so) that the Alpha is just a collection of decoders and LED outputs. The idea is that you assign each motor to the same accessory address as an LED output (the outputs are sequentially addressed and you can only set the start address) then both devices respond to the same command. That's why they call it a 'mimic'.

 

I used an Alpha on my last layout but instead of using the same address for motor and corresponding signal LED on the layout I used macros to send individual commands to each. I think I did it because I wanted a signal for each yard lane and access to each lane depended on how multiple turnouts were set.

Edited January 17 by AndrueC

[ColinK]

Thanks Nigel and AndrueC, most helpful.  I had never thought of using a rotary switch for points, but makes so much sense.  Great control panel.

 

I’ve started a seperate thread for the dual gauge layout I’ve got to wire up.

[AndrueC]

One thing our club layout (Meacham) (DC) has for the fiddle yard is a rotary switch with a separate button. The rotary switch dictates which lane of the yard gets power and you press the switch to set the turnouts to access that lane. A lane will also have power if the turnouts are set correctly for it (power routing).

 

It's a bit complex to understand at first but it allows you to move trains up their lane whilst also allowing incoming/outgoing trains of a different lane. Each lane also has multiple isolation sections. It's great fun to operate and also fun to watch although probably more action out front than would be prototypical :)

[Ron Ron Ron]

6 hours ago, AndrueC said:

For what it's worth the Cobalt Alpha also avoids those wires for DCC. It's not clear (or I didn't find it so) that the Alpha is just a collection of decoders and LED outputs. The idea is that you assign each motor to the same accessory address as an LED output (the outputs are sequentially addressed and you can only set the start address) then both devices respond to the same command. That's why they call it a 'mimic'……

 

 

I think you are describing the Cobalt Alpha Mimic, which is a different device to the Alpha Encoder and Alpha Switches that are used to create a Cobalt Alpha control panel.

 

Alpha Mimic does as you say, it reads the DCC commands being sent to the point motors via the Power Bus (track or accessory) and illuminates the matching LED’s on a mimic panel.

 

That’s not what the Cobalt Alpha encoder, used to drive a control panel (track diagram or not), does.

It operates on the cab bus and generates DCC commands, to be sent to the addressed point motors.

If using the Alpha Switch panel mounted buttons on a mimic control panel, these buttons have LED’s built in, illuminated by electrical contact.

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Really helpful, clear, understandable and well drawn wiring diagrams for the MP1 motors, from Harlequin (Phil).

 

However, multiply that for 15, 20, 30 or more point motors !!!

Do the math, as the Americans say.

That’s an awful lot of wiring running out to the layout and back.

…..or, you could just use the 2 wires of an accessory bus.

 

 

.

[ngaugenic]

Quote

That’s an awful lot of wiring running out to the layout and back.

…..or, you could just use the 2 wires of an accessory bus.

True, but I quite like the wiring part, I suppose I include designing and installing the infrastructure in my modelling experience and coping with a tangle or excess or wiring is part of that for me.

 

Quote

Really helpful, clear, understandable and well drawn wiring diagrams for the MP1 motors, from Harlequin (Phil).

Is there a way to bookmark such images, I think  a lot of people would find it helpful...

[Ron Ron Ron]

3 hours ago, ngaugenic said:

.......Is there a way to bookmark such images, I think  a lot of people would find it helpful...

 

The diagram is an image.

Right click on the image and depending on your type of browser, there should be options to open the image in another tab, or save it, etc, etc.

 

In Safari, I can right click on the image and can then do all sorts with it.

 

 

.