Rapido to produce GWR wagons N19, Loco coal, and O18 5-plank open in OO

[JShow]

Rapido announced in their most recent newsletter that they will be adding to their GWR wagon model range by producing the N19 Loco Coal wagon and the O18 5-plank open in OO. These diagrams share underpinnings of already announced GWR wagons and date from 1913-1914.

 

Rapido, I'm sure, will have more to post, but I wanted to share this news.

[Cwmtwrch]

They are on the Rapido website - £32.95 each, in a variety of liveries.

[Miss Prism]

The O18 is a good choice, straddling two eras. It was the final DCIII open, and the first to have a sack-truck door.

 

[sjrixon]

More wagons....

 

They look really nice. I've now lost count as to how many I've Pre-Ordered! 

[gwrrob]

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/gwr-dia-n19-loco-coal/

 

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/gwr-dia-o18-5-plank/

[Compound2632]

Hopefully this continued influx of DCIII-braked wagons will encourage folk to build more kits of conventionally-braked wagons to preserve balance. (Can one strip the DCIII brake gear off the O18 and turn it into a conventionally-braked wagon, or are there too many differences compared to later diagrams?)

 

The O18 is a wagon that anyone modelling the grouping and early BR eras anywhere in the country should have, as a representative GWR open, but the N19 is, for once in Rapido's portfolio, of more restricted range, being of no real interest to those not modelling a GWR/WR location. (Which, let's face it, is probably a minority of 00 modellers.)

Edited January 27 by Compound2632

[RapidoCorbs]

You beat me to it - we've just posted threads about these wagons here:

 

 

[Miss Prism]

17 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

(Can one strip the DCIII brake gear off the O18 and turn it into a conventionally-braked wagon, or are there too many differences compared to later diagrams?)

 

The O24 was the first RCH brake design. On the O24 body however, the corner plates extend over the curb rail. (Unlike the O18.)

 

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

Many congratulations to Rapido on the announcement of the N19 Loco Coal Wagon. 

 

Within The 00 Wishlist Poll, it has been Middle Polling for a number of years but only narrowly missed being in High Polling in 2022 (the last Poll to run before we run again at the end of this year).

 

We wish Rapido every success with the project!

 

We had deleted the Open Wagon from The Poll lists as we took it be 'within the same family' of the others announced. It would be impractical for us to list every diagram ever made.🙂

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

[Tallpaul69]

Hi All,

These new Rapido wagons look very good , if a trifle expensive, even in todays prices!

Bit a quick question?

Can any one explain the use in BR(W) days the use of the black(?) O18s? I understand the N19s were black for loco coal, but were the O18s also used for Loco Coal.

If the black O18s were used other than Loco Coal, did they retain this livery into the 1962/3 period?

 

Many thanks

Paul

[Miss Prism]

12 minutes ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Can any one explain the use in BR(W) days the use of the black(?) O18s?

 

I don't think Rapido is suggesting the O18s appeared in black. (If I've understood your point correctly.)

 

[gwrrob]

6 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

I don't think Rapido is suggesting the O18s appeared in black. (If I've understood your point correctly.)

 

 

Described in the spec as BRw grey.

[Tallpaul69]

10 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

Described in the spec as BRw grey.

OK, gwrrob and Miss Prism, I was only looking at retailers pictures, where the "darker" O18s do not look a lot lighter than the black N19s!

 

The same query applies, apart from those in a very worn/bare wood condition, did this "darker" grey livery remain in wide use until 1962/3 or were the vast majority that remained in the "light" grey? (or worn?)

 

Thanks

Paul 

[Cwmtwrch]

1 hour ago, Tallpaul69 said:

OK, gwrrob and Miss Prism, I was only looking at retailers pictures, where the "darker" O18s do not look a lot lighter than the black N19s!

These appear to be intended to represent wagons from 1948-9, painted in GWR grey [as BR did not announce their liveries until 1949], but with BR lettering. This would gone out of use once BR decided on pale grey. However, it would have been some years before such wagons were repainted or withdrawn, and there is limited evidence of non-GWR wagons appearing in a dark grey without black patches in the same era, possibly because of paint shortages.

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Hi All,

These new Rapido wagons look very good , if a trifle expensive, even in todays prices!

Bit a quick question?

Can any one explain the use in BR(W) days the use of the black(?) O18s? I understand the N19s were black for loco coal, but were the O18s also used for Loco Coal.

If the black O18s were used other than Loco Coal, did they retain this livery into the 1962/3 period?

 

Many thanks

Paul

In addition to the points made by 'Cwmtwrch'  In BR days black was used for departmental vehicles and they should thus have been carry DW prefix numbers rather than W prefix numbers.

 

Loco coal wagons seem to have fallen between two stools and there is plenty of evidence of them being painted lthe standard light grey (and seemingly even occasionally appearing carrying revenue earning traffic.  So for the BR period Rapido appear to be offering a DW numbered example in black plus a couple in standard light grey nit carrying DW numbers (and even a W numbered example which I suspect should probably be GWR dark grey as an early period example..

 

Quite how many of these still survived in regular use for koco coal as late as 1961/62 can probably only be got at through any surviving wagon registers and accurately dated photos.

[Cwmtwrch]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

In BR days black was used for departmental vehicles and they should thus have been carry DW prefix numbers rather than W prefix numbers.

One of the Rapido options has a DW prefixed number, but the body seems to be the same colour as the GW versions. I would also have expected black, but this could be another example of lettering being updated before the colour changed. The colour changed to light grey quite early in the 1950s, as I understand it, and the large "LOCO" changed to a small version above the capacity as Rapido show.

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

and seemingly even occasionally appearing carrying revenue earning traffic

Loco coal wagons were presumably built because, before nationalisation, most coal travelled in PO wagons which the grouped railways didn't own and couldn't use without paying the owner, and separately identified because, not being revenue earners, they were treated differently by the accountants. It seems that early in the 1950s it was decided that, now BR owned everything, there was no need to identify them separately and any coal wagon could be used for any load irrespective of the end user of the contents. They also seem to have eventually lost their "LOCO" branding. Thereafter photos of coal stages commonly show anything but loco coal wagons.

 

In "Western Steam in Colour", p7, there is photo of Kingsbridge taken in 1961, which shows a somewhat rusty N30 full of loco ash and cinders; it is in grey, with the small "LOCO" above the load. It also shows five 13T traffic opens full of coal, two unfitted, three VB. These could be domestic coal rather than loco coal, but there is no indication of domestic coal traffic where they are parked, and one is between the N30 and the buffer stop.

Edited January 27 by Cwmtwrch
correction

[Mol_PMB]

David Larkin's 'The Acquired Wagons of British Railways' Volume 2 has very many photos of loco coal wagons in early BR usage, including numerous ex-GWR types.

Some are grey, some are black. Some have a D-prefix to the number and some don't.

Strictly speaking, on a departmental black wagon the lettering should be in straw rather than white, but that wasn't always the case.

Mol

[RapidoCorbs]

I can confirm the O18s you are looking at are in GWR Grey with BR markings.

As to whether the N19s are faded black or very very dark grey, the answer is 'yes'.

[Sitham Yard]

4 hours ago, Cwmtwrch said:

It seems that early in the 1950s it was decided that, now BR owned everything, there was no need to identify them separately and any coal wagon could be used for any load irrespective of the end user of the contents. They also seem to have eventually lost their "LOCO" branding. Thereafter photos of coal stages commonly show anything but loco coal wagons.

3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

David Larkin's 'The Acquired Wagons of British Railways' Volume 2 has very many photos of loco coal wagons in early BR usage, including numerous ex-GWR types.

Some are grey, some are black. Some have a D-prefix to the number and some don't.

Strictly speaking, on a departmental black wagon the lettering should be in straw rather than white, but that wasn't always the case.

Mol

 

According to Don Rowland's book "British Railway wagons the first half million" page 10, 15960 locomotive coal wagons were transferred from Service Stock to Traffic Stock in `1952. When they were repainted or had their markings changed could of course be much later.

Andrew

[Garethp8873]

It's great what you can find on ebay sometimes... whilst most ebayers would be looking at 3201 or 1465, my eye was observing the Loco wagon. My suspicions is that it is the same wagon in both negatives but at different positions, unless someone who knows Machynlleth can tell me otherwise. Happily won these both of these negatives last month :)

 

 

 

Edited January 28 by Garethp8873

[Cwmtwrch]

4 hours ago, Garethp8873 said:

My suspicions is that it is the same wagon in both negatives but at different positions, unless someone who knows Machynlleth can tell me otherwise.

Both are Machynlleth, I believe. 3201 was allocated there from before 8/1950 to 7/1955 and 1465 from before 8/1950 to 10/1956. I think the wagon is probably not the same one, or it has moved between the shots. With 3201 it appears to be loaded above the level of the sides, but nothing can be seen in it in the other one, where it also appears to have the door on the far side dropped, which would imply it's empty.

[Dunsignalling]

On 27/01/2024 at 21:53, Sitham Yard said:

According to Don Rowland's book "British Railway wagons the first half million" page 10, 15960 locomotive coal wagons were transferred from Service Stock to Traffic Stock in `1952. When they were repainted or had their markings changed could of course be much later.

Andrew

 

Removal of the branding appears to have taken at least five years, maybe significantly longer, so "much later" would seem to fit.  I haven't noticed photos of these these particular wagons, but I'd guess they were treated as variably as a couple I've recently spotted.

  

1. An ex-LNER 20T, wooden-bodied wagon as per the Chivers kit; still branded "LOCO" in 1957.

 

It was in a train about to go up the bank from Exeter St David's to Central, thereby scoring a "prototype for everything" bonus point! 

 

2. Also in 1957, ex-LNER 20T steel body type, as per the Parkside kit, in traffic-coal service, Axminster goods yard, no longer branded LOCO but still in black. I'm currently cross-kitting this one using the more appropriate Chivers underframe (the Parkside kit comes with the BR pattern).

 

The Exeter one is next in line!

 

John

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1 by Dunsignalling

[The Stationmaster]

On 28/01/2024 at 20:21, Cwmtwrch said:

Both are Machynlleth, I believe. 3201 was allocated there from before 8/1950 to 7/1955 and 1465 from before 8/1950 to 10/1956. I think the wagon is probably not the same one, or it has moved between the shots. With 3201 it appears to be loaded above the level of the sides, but nothing can be seen in it in the other one, where it also appears to have the door on the far side dropped, which would imply it's empty.

Definitely Machynlleth.   If anybody asks me where I was when England beat Germany to win the World Cup the answer is easy - Machynlleth goods yard, right next to the shed yard.

[Fat Controller]

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Removal of the branding appears to have taken at least five years, maybe significantly longer, so "much later" would seem to fit.  I haven't noticed photos of these these particular wagons, but I'd guess they were treated as variably as a couple I've recently spotted.

  

1. An ex-LNER 20T, wooden-bodied wagon as per the Chivers kit; still branded "LOCO" in 1957.

 

It was in a train about to go up the bank from Exeter St David's to Central, thereby scoring a "prototype for everything" bonus point! 

 

2. Also in 1957, ex-LNER 20T steel body type, as per the Parkside kit, in traffic-coal service, Axminster goods yard, no longer branded LOCO but still in black. I'm currently cross-kitting this one using the more appropriate Chivers underframe (the Parkside kit comes with the BR pattern).

 

The Exeter one is next in line!

 

John

 

 

 

 

In the very late 1960s /early 1970s, I saw one of the steel ex-LNE type at Llanelli Stabling Point. It was resplendent in ex-works traffic grey; however, there was a black rectangle bearing the lettering 'Loco Coal'   between the side doors.

[Mol_PMB]

Were there still any steam locos left in Llanelli to use its contents? Or was it in commercial service?