Bachmann Mk1 composites in crimson and cream livery with Western Region numbers

[Weaselfish]

Good afternoon.

 

Did Bachmann ever produce a Mk1 (express type, for the avoidance of doubt) composite or brake composite coach in crimson and cream livery with Western Region numbers? If so, what were the serial numbers please? I've drawn a blank with finding any on the Model Rail database and haven't seen any come up in the usual 2nd hand sources.

 

Any information gratefully received - thank you.

[brushman47544]

No, not according to the Bachmann past products list https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/page/past-products

 

The SK and FK have been produced in Crimson and Cream with W numbers but not the CK and BCK. Were there any prototypes so adorned?

Edited February 1 by brushman47544

[Weaselfish]

6 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

No, not according to the Bachmann past products list https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/page/past-products

 

The SK and FK have been produced in Crimson and Cream with W numbers but not the CK and BCK. Were there any prototypes so adorned?

That's great, thank you for your help. I hadn't seen the Bachmann list. I've no idea about any prototypes - I'm building up a rake of crimson and cream WR MK1s and was puzzled by the absence of composites.  Thanks again.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I think you will find that WR numbered mk1 CK and BCK were produced, but in choc and cream. 

 

However if you can find Bachmann's mk1 CK and BCK in crimson and cream, the lettering comes off very easily with a careful application of white spirit. (This is generally true of Bachmann's product.) Thus removing an E, M or Sc and substituting a W 'converts' them to a WR allocated vehicle. Purists will probably change the numbers too.

[Covkid]

58 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I think you will find that WR numbered mk1 CK and BCK were produced, but in choc and cream. 

 

However if you can find Bachmann's mk1 CK and BCK in crimson and cream, the lettering comes off very easily with a careful application of white spirit. (This is generally true of Bachmann's product.) Thus removing an E, M or Sc and substituting a W 'converts' them to a WR allocated vehicle. Purists will probably change the numbers too.

If it is any relevance to the OP, the 1978 RCTS book lists the following CKs with "W" prefixes

15647 15811 15820 15862-868 15870 15880 15886 15887 15897 15905 15910-912 15934 15944 15973 15996 16076 16113 16199 16206-219 16223-225 16245

 

Ditto BCKs

21072  21129 21152 21173-75 21183 21185 21187-88 21190 21192-94 

[brushman47544]

18 hours ago, Covkid said:

If it is any relevance to the OP, the 1978 RCTS book lists the following CKs with "W" prefixes

15647 15811 15820 15862-868 15870 15880 15886 15887 15897 15905 15910-912 15934 15944 15973 15996 16076 16113 16199 16206-219 16223-225 16245

 

Ditto BCKs

21072  21129 21152 21173-75 21183 21185 21187-88 21190 21192-94 

Presumably nothing about liveries, although by 1978 they will be blue/grey rather than the Crimson and cream the OP was asking about.

[brushman47544]

19 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I think you will find that WR numbered mk1 CK and BCK were produced, but in choc and cream. 

And maroon.

[Covkid]

On 03/02/2024 at 16:04, brushman47544 said:

Presumably nothing about liveries, although by 1978 they will be blue/grey rather than the Crimson and cream the OP was asking about.

 

No.  I imagine 99.5% of Mk1s were blue & grey in 1978 when the book was published.  Additionally, I have no idea whether coaches were swapped between regions at all. Perhaps "Robert CWP" can help ?

My input was just helping with CK and BCK numbers from the 1978 book

Edited February 4 by Covkid

[Halvarras]

According to the Parkin book on BR Mark 1 stock the switch from crimson and cream to regional colours occurred in May 1956; the back pages contain a list of initial allocations by Region (the author acknowledges that this is an attempt at compiling this information as he had not been able to check against primary sources, but he believes it to be largely correct). There is also a list of lot numbers with running number ranges and completion dates, so from both lists it is possible to work out the number ranges for CK and BCK vehicles supplied to the Western Region during the crimson and cream years (I had trouble finding a batch of CKs after W15584 so I curtailed the search at mid-1955):

 

CK - W15059-15064 - Lot No. 30022 - January 1952

        W15065-15131 - Lot No. 30005 - October 1953

        W15425-15435 - Lot No. 30076 - October 1953

        W15436-15442 - Lot No. 30081 - April 1954

        W15533-15542 - Lot No. 30081 - August 1954

        W15583-15584 - Lot No. 30135 - July 1955

 

BCK - W21020-21024 - Lot No. 30034 - January 1954

           W21060-21091 - Lot No. 30133 - May 1955

 

Note - some of these lots all went to the WR, others were split with other Regions and just the WR vehicles within them are shown.

 

Hope this helps!

 

[Pteremy]

In case it helps... I have a set of Crimson and Cream Mk1's to make up a 'summer saturday' interregional set c1958 (Wolverhampton-Ilfracombe). But they all have M numbers. The official BR(W) 'Working of Coaches and Vans in Through Trains' specifies the required set formation for services such as this and indicates that some sets would be provided by WR and some by LMR. Strictly speaking my particular set should have been provided by WR - but photographic evidence through the late 1950's and early 1960's suggests that, in practice, things were not always as neatly organised as the written requirement (no doubt reflecting the reduction in services and coaching stock, and also regional boundary changes). So, from a modelling perspective, it is perfectly reasonable to model the coach set as if one of those originating from  the LMR.

[reddragon]

I managed to form a rake of of 6 different crimson & cream Mk1s for WR all Bachmann

 

BSK+SO+SO+RU+RFO+FK

 

I have never found any others.

[Weaselfish]

Thanks for your replies everyone. It's been very helpful and interesting.

[trevor7598]

Both Hornby and Bachmann have yet to produce a crimson and cream MK 1 3set ( BSK/CK/BSK )

for the Southern Region, complete with set no. on the brake ends.

There is the opportunity to sell three coaches there.

 

[cages_cage]

On 09/02/2024 at 05:31, trevor7598 said:

Both Hornby and Bachmann have yet to produce a crimson and cream MK 1 3set ( BSK/CK/BSK )

for the Southern Region, complete with set no. on the brake ends.

There is the opportunity to sell three coaches there.

 

It would be nice. While such a variant is

- easy enough to do with transfers

- not a variant I would think Hornby or Bachmann would consider "worthwhile,"

 

both manufacturers have produced incredibly specific variants of Southern Region coaches.

 

The prime example... Hornby produced two runs of Green Mk1s with the roundel, which (to my knowledge) only were used in one train: The Royal Wessex! It was not until 2020 where they released a run or "common," roundel-free green Mk1s.

[Right Away]

On 09/02/2024 at 11:31, trevor7598 said:

Both Hornby and Bachmann have yet to produce a crimson and cream MK 1 3set ( BSK/CK/BSK )

for the Southern Region, complete with set no. on the brake ends.

…..

 

 

Like the Bachmann coaches shown departing in the background here ….
Hands up, they’re renumbered Eastern Region stock; set number was chosen as it was one of the last to be repainted into green.