Moving soon 20x10 N gauge

[Camps Junction]

4 minutes ago, Chimer said:

Having done a bit more research, I now understand that Bounds Green depot in it's present form, that we've all been working around, didn't exist in the period you want to model, and there was just a goods yard on the site then, following the closure and demolition of a small steam shed in 1954.  The present depot was commissioned in 1977 (steam long gone) to handle HSTs ..... (this is me believing everything I find on the internet, by the way).  So if you keep the depot, you really need to move forward in time towards the 80s .....

 

If you were to scrub the depot, with its huge footprint and requirement for all round access, you could do a pretty whizzy representation of Ally Pally, the flying junction and the two lines heading north in the 60s/70s.  And I'm sure it would be possible to incorporate dumbbells without , as you put it, wasting 15 feet of modelling space.

 

With so much space available to begin with, it seems weird that you would even contemplate adding the complexity of a helix (or two!)  But you could obviously afford to use generous radii if you did.

 

I found all I needed to know about Bowes Park station and the reversing siding by going to it's Wikipedia entry and following an "external link" to "The History of Bowes Park Railway station".  And a search for "Bounds Green Railway Depot" led me to a Flickr page (owned by Adrian Nicholls) with some authoritative-looking info about the depot.  I can't copy the links for some reason.

 

But depot or no depot is really the crucial question!

 

The saga continues!  I do hope you didn't order all that pointwork ...

 

 

 

 

Hey Chimmer thanks for that,  Yes the saga continues It seems there is not much evidence of what  was previously on the footprint of the depot other than the few pics that you found(thank you) I’ll do a search under his name and have a look , But it seems I may have to bring the ERA forward but doesn’t that mean there will be lots of electric train lines around then in this era 1977 ??? Which is something I wanted to avoid ,  Saga 1 Chapter 2 lol PS points on hold till final ink is dry( on the track plan).

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, Camps Junction said:

Hey Chimmer thanks for that,  Yes the saga continues It seems there is not much evidence of what  was previously on the footprint of the depot other than the few pics that you found(thank you) I’ll do a search under his name and have a look , But it seems I may have to bring the ERA forward but doesn’t that mean there will be lots of electric train lines around then in this era 1977 ??? Which is something I wanted to avoid ,  Saga 1 Chapter 2 lol PS points on hold till final ink is dry( on the track plan).

1977 was electric, for suburban and outer suburban services

 

This is Bounds Green when new

 

[Camps Junction]

In the mean time I will try and track down pics of pre depot of 1977 , PS thank you all again for the input on this saga, Shed will arrive 1 week after we move in. Drew

[Harlequin]

1:1250 map dated 1954:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.5&lat=51.60161&lon=-0.12242&layers=173&b=1&o=100

 

[woodenhead]

5 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

1:1250 map dated 1954:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.5&lat=51.60161&lon=-0.12242&layers=173&b=1&o=100

 

Added complexity of the Palace Heights line but a rather nice place to plonk lots of coaches and the carriage shed is a tad smaller perhaps.

[Harlequin]

Drew, have you given any thought to modelling all the houses around the railway? It would be a mammoth task, comparable to Copenhagen Fields: https://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/layouts/copenhagen-fields/

 

Edited April 10 by Harlequin

[Camps Junction]

The buildings well no, But im sure in the 50s there would of been way less and very similar and more basic houses, This is apparently the only track in the depot area in the 50s, Drew

[Camps Junction]

Ignore above, Thanks to Harlequin for 1954 map but i think this would be to ambitious as from depot side to Dagmar Rd side at its widest its 38 tracks wide i just think it would be to much so ill stick to 1977. As i think if i keep going i will loose myself in this which i dont want to do , Hence ill stick with where we are at presant. Drew'

[Harlequin]

You don't have to slavishly reproduce a prototype track plan. Almost every model railway that represents a real location is a compressed and simplified version of it.

 

 

[njee20]

Even if you did slavishly recreate it I’d argue that just laying a 36-road yard is easier than building a complex shed building in an already complex yard!

[woodenhead]

If you did lay a 36 road set of carriage sidings, then you have your fiddleyard sorted if you operate the Hertford loop as a sort of return line for the ECML north element of the circuit.

 

Then another return loop at the southern end to represent Kings X.

 

All you need then is a few sidings to represent a fiddleyard for any freight trains.

[Chimer]

4 hours ago, Harlequin said:

You don't have to slavishly reproduce a prototype track plan. Almost every model railway that represents a real location is a compressed and simplified version of it.

Yes indeedy.  You're on a memory lane trip, so you need to identify which bits (if any) you want to be pretty accurate, as opposed to just giving the right overall feel of the place.  Like I'm sure the flying junction is important, but is it essential that the main line is quadruple track?  You could halve the number of tracks in the depot and still operate it using the basic principles we've identified.  And OK, we've learnt the Hertford line was electrified early in your chosen period, but you could choose to ignore that fact and just use DMUs to provide the service there.

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Presumably in the prototype they remain in the shed for weeks at a time...?

A few hours, mostly.

[PMP]

On 10/04/2024 at 18:18, Camps Junction said:

Ignore above, Thanks to Harlequin for 1954 map but i think this would be to ambitious as from depot side to Dagmar Rd side at its widest its 38 tracks wide i just think it would be to much so ill stick to 1977. As i think if i keep going i will loose myself in this which i dont want to do , Hence ill stick with where we are at presant. Drew'

If you’re sticking with 1977, you’re firmly in BR Blue/Grey electric era. Hertford Loop and ECML inner suburban would be 313 units, with 312’s on outer suburban as far north as Hitchin. 312’s were less common on the Hertford Loop line. 
HST’s were initially used in March 1978, in 77 the core diet were 55’s and 47’s on ECML express work with 31’s on some Cambridge services, and a few 40/45/46’s. In the early 80’s on my daily commute Bounds Green stabled Mk1 and Mk2 coaching stock, and also housed sleeper Mk3’s. By early 1980’s HST’s were prevalent, the last regular loco hauled intercity service was culled in late 82.

Winding the clock back DMU operations were well established in the early 1960’s, the 105 being the predominant type. Steam Suburban traffic was L1 and N2 powered with a small amount of N7’s in br days.

 

[KingEdwardII]

11 hours ago, PMP said:

with 31’s on some Cambridge services

I don't remember many of those while travelling to/from Cambridge in those years. From KGX, it was pretty well always an EMU to Royston and then a change to a DMU for the rest of the journey. A big contrast with the loco hauled services from Cambridge to Liverpool Street.

 

Yours, Mike.

[Camps Junction]

What I may do do is leave current track plan as of 1977 with depot but use buildings associated with the years I have the trains for, At the end of the day I’ll be happy and the model is only for me and not a display model.

 

[PMP]

3 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

I don't remember many of those while travelling to/from Cambridge in those years. From KGX, it was pretty well always an EMU to Royston and then a change to a DMU for the rest of the journey. A big contrast with the loco hauled services from Cambridge to Liverpool Street.

 

Yours, Mike.

There weren’t many, one of the better know was the Cambridge Buffet express on a Friday evening. That had one of the last Gresley buffet cars in blue grey in the consist. February 78 was the end of through passenger services (at the time) to Cambridge. 31’s were also used on Peterborough commuter trains which were mainly Mk1 stock, until the electrification programme reached there.

[Michael Hodgson]

On 10/04/2024 at 22:55, Chimer said:

And OK, we've learnt the Hertford line was electrified early in your chosen period, but you could choose to ignore that fact and just use DMUs to provide the service there.

 

You don't need to model a bus on the bridge - but perhaps these should be on the bridge bashing thread .

[Camps Junction]

Hi all so we are now moved,This happend 6 weeks ago and was a real nightmare but we are getting settled, For a minute I thought about an O Gauge garden railway as new garden all lawn is 122ftx148ft but in reality my health wouldn’t allow it but was a nice idea for 2 days, Anway the old shed is being dismantled tommorow as I managed to sell it as the 12x8 was in good condition, The new shed has been designed and priced up and will get a call when it’s ready and they will then make arrangements to deliver and build it up, Then I can start insulating it and then start the base boards,Once it’s insulated I will start doing weekly videos and photos on the progress, Roll on the next 4 weeks.