SE&CR Cast bunker/cabside plates

[NHY 581]

Morning all, 

 

I'm trying to locate a clear image of the cast SE&CR plates fitted to the bunkers and cabsides of locos in the wartime/austerity grey livery and which were also seen on ex SE&CR locos in early Southern days. 

 

A line drawing/diagram or a clear image of perhaps a plate which has preserved would really help but to date I've failed to locate one. 

 

In particular, can anyone confirm what was below the SE&CR lettering ? 

 

Some, such as Hattons have a horizontal line beneath. Others have nothing. 

 

Also, I'm thinking white raised edge and lettering. Thoughts ? 

 

Rob. 

[wainwright1]

Bill Bedford does/did etched versions of the ones for the cabsides.

Not sure if he did the ones that went on the bunkers or tenders which seem to recall on the Bachmann C class were square shaped.

 

All the best

Ray

[billbedford]

2 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

Bill Bedford does/did etched versions of the ones for the cabsides.

 

I've not made any number plates for nearly 20 years. 

[NHY 581]

30 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

I've not made any number plates for nearly 20 years. 

 

Thanks Bill. I did have a look on your website. 

 

Rob

[fulton]

There have been some recent articles in the SE&CR Society Invicta magazines on this subject, but no clear close up views of the plates, seems they were painted grey with white border and lettering, I had these plates made by Light Railway Stores, I need to paint the border and lettering white, they were cast metal (presumably cast iron). I did originally go for red with brass lettering, my D1 needs to be corrected.

Edited February 29 by fulton
correction

[NHY 581]

2 hours ago, fulton said:

There have been some recent articles in the SE&CR Society Invicta magazines on this subject, but no clear close up views of the plates, seems they were painted grey with white border and lettering, I had these plates made by Light Railway Stores, I need to paint the border and lettering white, they were cast metal (presumably cast iron). I did originally go for red with brass lettering, my D1 needs to be corrected.

 

That's interesting, Fulton. I approached Light Railway Stores some time ago regarding some plates to be informed they wouldn't be in a position to produce custom orders.  

 

I'm currently corresponding with another producer with a view to these being made.

The colour scheme I have is white lettering on a Vermillion background. 

In conversation today with another SE&CR enthusiast, and pooling our respective research material, it does look like there are two types, which I designate as follows

 

Type 1 plate. 

 

 SE&CR lettering only as per Bachmann's RTR C class. Note this lettering should be slightly offset as in higher up on the plate for reasons that will become readily apparent as per below..

 

Type 2 plate.

 

 

SE&CR lettering with TEXT beneath, NOT simply a line below the SE&CR as some have depicted. Text reads ASHFORD WORKS and the words are below the E and C respectively in caps. This style of plate was affixed to locos built at Ashford Works. If not built there, then the text below the SE&CR was not present and accounts for the SE&CR lettering being offset as per Type 1 above, leaving a gap courtesy of the vacant lettering. 

 

The third type seems to be the initial castings and has a more 'florid' type face which was peculiar to the E and C respectively. 

 

Pretty certain all these plates were cast metal possibly brass though given that they were introduced in the midst of WW1, would they have used brass given it's main use at the time was in the munitions industry....? Later maybe but happy to be corrected. 

 

Rob

Edited February 29 by NHY 581

[Willl]

Hi Rob,

I ordered some plates from Narrow Planet / Light Railway Stores using their existing custom Peckett name plates. I went for 5.4mm long and 2.5mm high (rough measurements taken from my SECR grey Bachmann C class so again may be incorrect if the text should be raised on the type 1 plates). These look a reasonably close match to the SE&CR font to me (although the ampersand is a bit small)

 

I've not seen a lot of photos of this livery but these ones of Nos 633 and (credit to the Mike Morant collection) may help. I'm guessing they're the type 1 plates you're talking about.

 

Will

Edited February 29 by Willl

[NHY 581]

Thanks Will. 

 

Good to know and yes, your images correspond to "Type 1" as I call it. Your top image seems to be of the Neilson crane tank and that has the plate on the cab rear. Despite the angle, the text does appear to be high up within the panel which makes sense as this was not an Ashford built loco. 

 

Same with the A1, No.633. It built by Kitson so again, not an Ashford built loco so no "Ashford Works" beneath the SE&CR. 

 

Rob

[fulton]

My plates from Light Railway Stores, like Willl, were from their standard custom range, not exactly correct, but for myself quite acceptable, much better than the printed ones, the SE&CR Society has come to the conclusion, subject to more information, that the plates were, cast metal not brass, painted grey with white border and letters.