Roco Multimaus : Decoder overheating.

[Tinsley no.3]

Soo, didn't think I'd end up here but here we are, I have a roco multimaus controller which in the past has "possibly " killed 2 lenz silver mini's [say possibly bc they were second hand] by getting them very hot. My lok sound v3.5 decoder has just shut itself down due to getting very hot. The decoder after cooling seems to have survived the ordeal. I have read that the roco multimaus output too high of a current but I'm not sure? please can someone help [not to be rude but don't just say "your decoder is a dud" I'm pretty sure it's fine.]

 

=/

[WIMorrison]

I cannot remember is the track voltage is adjustable on these controllers - perhaps it is too high?

[Tinsley no.3]

From what I have read no, I've heared of people using bridge rectifiers but I'm not sure, my first dcc loco is a sound fitted class 31 [as the picture shows] so I'm new to dcc =/

[Tinsley no.3]

11 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

I cannot remember is the track voltage is adjustable on these controllers - perhaps it is too high?

You may be spot on with the track voltage but how to turn it down I'm not sure =/

[WIMorrison]

Are you using the 10764 with the Roco power supply and connected as shown here?

 

 

if you are then track voltage shouldn’t be an issue.

 

the default Roco voltage is now 18v which will not cause issues for modern decoders . I assume that they used the same default voltage when this was made. 

[Tinsley no.3]

5 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

Are you using the 10764 with the Roco power supply and connected as shown here?

 

 

if you are then track voltage shouldn’t be an issue.

 

the default Roco voltage is now 18v which will not cause issues for modern decoders . I assume that they used the same default voltage when this was made. 

No, unfortunately not, this controller was previously my father's which he used for 4y, this controller not only lacks the power track due to using peco set track but this adapter shown here.

[Tinsley no.3]

6 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

Are you using the 10764 with the Roco power supply and connected as shown here?

 

 

if you are then track voltage shouldn’t be an issue.

 

the default Roco voltage is now 18v which will not cause issues for modern decoders . I assume that they used the same default voltage when this was made. 

My complete set up

[WIMorrison]

That is a bit higher than the official 10725, but within acceptable limits. This will provide around 16-16.5v DCC at the track and that will not harm any modern decoders (I actually use 17v DCC).

However if you want to reduce the track voltage the official Roco power supply was 15v @ 4A

I therefore think your issue resides elsewhere and not with the Multimaus amplifier.

 

is the decoder spec’s correctly for the loco? It may not be large enough current wise

Edited March 5 by WIMorrison

[Tinsley no.3]

3 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

That is a bit higher than the official 10725, but within acceptable limits. This will provide around 16-16.5v DCC at the track and that will not harm any modern decoders (I actually use 17v DCC).

However if you want to reduce the track voltage the official Roco power supply was 15v @ 4A

I therefore think your issue resides elsewhere and not with the Multimaus amplifier.

 

is the decoder spec’s correctly for the loco? It may not be large enough current wise

I see, well I can confirm the decoder is fine as it is a lok sound v3.5 21 pin which the class 31 had fitted from factory as the chassis is a factory fitted example from 2010. Should I try a different dcc controller, I do have some access too a secondary controller but time is limited as are dates so I would like the multimaus working.

[Kaput]

You could try lowering CV53 to reduce the maximum voltage to the motor as a test.

Not sure about the figures to use on a 3.5, Lokprogrammer says the default is 56 which equals 14V

[Tinsley no.3]

1 minute ago, Kaput said:

You could try lowering CV53 to reduce the maximum voltage to the motor as a test.

Not sure about the figures to use on a 3.5, Lokprogrammer says the default is 56 which equals 14V

Just curious, why would giving the motor less voltage help the decoder,  the chassis is fine, it'd the decoder that is rejecting the controller for some reason? I can't change any cv as I don't want to leave the loco on the track for any more than necessary.  Thanks for the suggestion. 

[Kaput]

Unless it was overheating just sitting on the track without any movement/sound/lights then putting it on programming track won't do any harm.

 

Of course if it overheats just by sitting doing nothing then lowering the voltage to the motor won't help and the only viable test would be a different DCC system.

[Tinsley no.3]

Right, thanks to everyone for the advice, I have just tried the loco again without the sound on and the decoder got warm but not hot, I will wait until I have access to a different brand of dcc controller when I have time to visit my local model shop but I still am open to suggestions.

Genuinely appreciated that in the span of an hour I've had so much help 😅

[Dagworth]

You could try turning the sound volume down, that would help to keep the decoder cooler as it won't be working so hard.

 

Andi

[Mark Forrest]

I have (for a number of years) used a Gaugemaster WM1-E power supply which has a claimed output of 18v 1100mA with a Multimaus and had no issues with overheating decoders (or any other issues).

[Butler Henderson]

I found with Roco transformer my Multimaus was giving a peak track voltage of 24v. The original solution was two strings of diodes in opposing direction in one leg of the layout feed to drop the voltage. Now use a 19.6v laptop power supply which results in a track voltage of 17.8v.

Edited March 5 by Butler Henderson

[Harlequin]

Is the speaker the one that was originally installed or has it been changed?

The Loksound v3.5 amplifier is designed to drive 100ohm impedance.

[Tinsley no.3]

1 hour ago, Dagworth said:

You could try turning the sound volume down, that would help to keep the decoder cooler as it won't be working so hard.

 

Andi

Good solution... if I had the instructions  😅

[Tinsley no.3]

50 minutes ago, Mark Forrest said:

I have (for a number of years) used a Gaugemaster WM1-E power supply which has a claimed output of 18v 1100mA with a Multimaus and had no issues with overheating decoders (or any other issues).

The type of power supply my father added to this controller was a bsg-1802000uk

[Tinsley no.3]

38 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Is the speaker the one that was originally installed or has it been changed?

The Loksound v3.5 amplifier is designed to drive 100ohm impedance.

I can confirm the decoder and speaker are the same as they left Hornby in 2010.

[WIMorrison]

1 minute ago, Tinsley no.3 said:

I can confirm the decoder and speaker are the same as they left Hornby in 2010.

Which, as I said earlier is perfectly acceptable giving you 16-16.5v DCC at the track.

[Dagworth]

8 minutes ago, Tinsley no.3 said:

Good solution... if I had the instructions  😅

The internet is your friend

 

https://www.esu.eu/uploads/tx_esudownloads/524xx_LokSound_V35_ESUKG_US_Betriebsanleitung_Auflage_IV_ebook_01.pdf

 

Andi

[TWG]

I wonder if you have started at the wrong end by assuming that the trouble is with the Multimaus.  I think that you may be confusing current and voltage; you start by saying that "Multimaus too high of a current" but subsequent discussion has been of voltage.  The general opinion, as I read it, is that decoders can stand the voltage that your system is likely to be putting out; this is especially true of good quality decoders such as ESU and Lenz.  I am with Iain Morrison when he said above that "I think that your issue lies elsewhere and not with the Multimaus amplifier".  I suggest that the problem might be in the loco.  There could be a fault with the motor that causing it to draw too much current, or there might be a small (possibly intermttent) short circuit that is not sufficient to cause the digital system to cut out but causes the decoder to overheat.

 

A decoder tester (e.g. ESU or Lais) is useful in such circumstances.

[Tinsley no.3]

6 hours ago, TWG said:

I wonder if you have started at the wrong end by assuming that the trouble is with the Multimaus.  I think that you may be confusing current and voltage; you start by saying that "Multimaus too high of a current" but subsequent discussion has been of voltage.  The general opinion, as I read it, is that decoders can stand the voltage that your system is likely to be putting out; this is especially true of good quality decoders such as ESU and Lenz.  I am with Iain Morrison when he said above that "I think that your issue lies elsewhere and not with the Multimaus amplifier".  I suggest that the problem might be in the loco.  There could be a fault with the motor that causing it to draw too much current, or there might be a small (possibly intermttent) short circuit that is not sufficient to cause the digital system to cut out but causes the decoder to overheat.

 

A decoder tester (e.g. ESU or Lais) is useful in such circumstances.

Thanks for this, I am new to dcc so yes I have probably said a few things wrong, I have more a belief that the controller is at fault because even the person who bought the Multimaus [my father] hasn't actually used it with dcc sound locomotives, and has [as pointed out] used a non roco power supply/plug and, I'm not ruling out motor or decoder, I will try the loco with a blanking plate and the decoder in a different loco if possible. I do want to try a different controller as my family stopped using the Multimaus and went to z21 in a matter af a few years, the Multimaus only ever used to run German/Swiss stock and only ran anything like my 31 4/5 times on a short period. The z21 seems happy with all of my families zimo, esu, lok sound ect decoders and before now the last time the Multimaus was used was a year ago for 6 minutes on a SLW class 24 with sound. I do understand that the chip could be faulty but I don't want to believe a chip from 2010 would suddenly decide to have problems when the controller has some "bodgery" behind it and a lackluster time scale regarding most dcc equipment. I have read from one person in particular who had this issue and how they fixed it [without much detail though]. Thanks for the suggestion. 😅

[Tinsley no.3]

6 hours ago, TWG said:

I wonder if you have started at the wrong end by assuming that the trouble is with the Multimaus.  I think that you may be confusing current and voltage; you start by saying that "Multimaus too high of a current" but subsequent discussion has been of voltage.  The general opinion, as I read it, is that decoders can stand the voltage that your system is likely to be putting out; this is especially true of good quality decoders such as ESU and Lenz.  I am with Iain Morrison when he said above that "I think that your issue lies elsewhere and not with the Multimaus amplifier".  I suggest that the problem might be in the loco.  There could be a fault with the motor that causing it to draw too much current, or there might be a small (possibly intermttent) short circuit that is not sufficient to cause the digital system to cut out but causes the decoder to overheat.

 

A decoder tester (e.g. ESU or Lais) is useful in such circumstances.

Oh, I forgot to mention the main reason I would think it's the Multimaus is that it has claimed the lives of a lenz silver mini 6 pin decoder and a gaugemaster 6 pin dcc decoder to the same fate of overheating. Yes I am aware that 6 pin decoders are smaller and will get hot but these two decoders were tested and working By Rails of Sheffield,  my local model shop until they were tested on the Multimaus and got very hot and once tested were absolutely knackered. These were done by fitting the lenz in a farish class 37 and the gaugemaster was in a Dapol class 121 'Dummy' DMU, the decoder in the 121 was already fitted when acquired so no fault on decoder fitting by me. So that's one of the reasons,  added to with the wrong plug/transformer for the controller, others complaints and even the previous owner isn't sure if he ran dcc sound with it as the z21 came in for the 00 gauge collection and the Multimaus ran the H0.