Bachmann Mk1 Pullman coaches question(s)

[Br50_Kab]

Apologies in case this has been covered before elsewhere and the following sounds a bit silly to the more knowledgable. I tried the forum search but could not find a matching topic since it covers both, the model(s) and the prototype.

 

I would be able to buy 4 Bachmann MkI Pullmans second hand being:

39-310b second parlour

39-320a brake second

39-280b first kitchen

39-290b first parlour

 

Unfortunately, Pullmans aren't really my area of experise, so my maybe someone on here can answer the following:

Could I form a reasonably prototypical train with these coaches? British railways were always cosidered a side-thing by me after buying a goods wagon in Bath back in summer 2008, however my stock has grown ever since but mainly on the freight side. I don't want to spend an awful lot of money to complete the rake in case these four coaches aren't sufficient. I know, I could always make it a "Rule 1" train but wouldn't necessarily want to approach things this way immediately.

In case this helps: in terms of motive power I have settled on Western Region BR steam and diesels (not 100% prototypical I am sure, but genereally speaking) with somewhere around 1963/64/65 being the upper limit of my time frame. However, I've always assumed that Pullman trains were more of a SR or (N)ER thing and less so on the WR. So, how likely would such coaches have turned up there? And if so, could they be seen in full rakes or as part of a train of, say, "normal" coaching stock?

 

Apart from the use on the prototypical railways, is there anything i should look out for? Detailing packs that could be missing for instance?

Moreover, what is the"verdict" of the modellers community of these coaches? Do the Bachmann variants represent the prototype accuraltely? I remember that there were discussions here and elsewhere about the roof ribs on normal Mk1 coaching stock so I wondered if there may also be something "wrong" with the Pullmans as well?

 

Thanks in advance for helping me out on this

 

Bendix

[phil-b259]

These sites may be useful.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/67418519@N00/galleries/72157649234607727/with/4375316039

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/67418519@N00/galleries/72157649679427882/

 

https://sremg.org.uk/coach/coupe/coupe_se13.pdf

 

Please be aware that although initially trains tended to be 'all Pullman' as time went on you increasingly got the situation where there were only a handful of Pullman cars attached to a train of otherwise ordinary M1 / Mk2 stock as seen here 

 

 

What livery are the cars you are looking to purchase in?

[Steamport Southport]

Some of your questions are answered here.

 

https://emgauge70s.co.uk/proto_pullman.html

 

A little after your time scale, but this could be an excuse for them.

 

Quote

Many of the kitchen seconds spent years in store as no work could be found for them, although some were loaned to the Western Region as cover for the Blue Pullman, and for use in some excursions. 

 

And some info here as well.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/leeds-west-riding/301-queen-of-scots

 

More information on Pullman cars? Then look here.

 

https://sremg.org.uk/coach/coupe/index.shtml

 

These two are probably most relevant

 

https://sremg.org.uk/coach/coupe/coupe_se13.pdf

 

https://sremg.org.uk/coach/coupe/coupe_se16.pdf

 

 

As for how good they are. I can't remember any serious faults. With them being a later model I don't think they suffered with the "rib" problem.

 

 

Jason

[Halvarras]

Regarding your list of four models, ref. 39-320A is not a Brake Second, but the Bar car (Hadrians Bar). There were no Mark 1 Pullman brake vehicles built - during your time period an 'original' Pullman brake vehicle would have usually been provided. On the WR a Mark 1 BG in choc/cream livery could be a stand-in, or if you really want something different a Hawksworth BCK in choc/cream - there were two, W7372W and W7377W, which initially retained GWR livery for use as brake and staff vehicles for the Royal Train and were repainted into BR (WR) choc/cream in 1957 IIRC, being relinquished to normal passenger service in 1965; however they were quickly commandeered for use as brake vehicles for the WR's stand-by 'South Wales Pullman' set (employed in case of non-availability of a 'Blue Pullman'). A photo in the Bradford Barton album 'Diesels on Western Region' (page 53) shows D1643 at Cardiff in 1965 (definitely not 1961 as stated - D1500 didn't appear until 1962!) with one of these two Hawksworth BCKs behind the loco, followed by two original Pullman cars then three of the Mark 1 type. So these Mark 1 Pullman vehicles were definitely in use on the WR during 1965, although I don't know whether the Bar car made the move from the ER - I suspect not, perhaps a Pullman expert can advise.

 

It is possible to change Hornby's R4504 into a passable representation of W7372/7W in later BR (WR) condition by using T-Cut and a blunt wooden cocktail stick to erase the GWR insignia, lower waist-level lining and other markings; the model is numbered 7372 but this needs changing to W7372W lower on the bodyside. The 'Smoking' wording on the inside of the windows also needs changing to BR 'No Smoking' labels as well as those for First Class as appropriate - T-Cut will do this too without damaging the glazing, although this obviously requires dismantling the model. I've done all this but it took me well over two hours of frantic rubbing......for your purposes an original Pullman brake or Mark 1 BG would be simpler!

Edited March 9 by Halvarras
Remembered the First Class labels for a BCK

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 08/03/2024 at 22:53, Br50_Kab said:

Moreover, what is the"verdict" of the modellers community of these coaches?

Very good for appearance, and operation wise in the top bracket. The well proven close coupling system, when used with a 'rigid bar' coupler performs extremely well, the gangway faceplates in contact on straight track which both looks very well and has the vehicles so coupled move as a single piece, and the cam action spacing them out proportional to the curve radius. The current collection on the metal on metal pinpoints results in very free rolling vehicles.

 

Caveat. You may feel the need to upgrade all your lesser coaching stock as a result...

[ThaneofFife]

Do the wheels still squeak?

[G-BOAF]

21 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Very good for appearance, and operation wise in the top bracket. The well proven close coupling system, when used with a 'rigid bar' coupler performs extremely well, the gangway faceplates in contact on straight track which both looks very well and has the vehicles so coupled move as a single piece, and the cam action spacing them out proportional to the curve radius. The current collection on the metal on metal pinpoints results in very free rolling vehicles.

 

Caveat. You may feel the need to upgrade all your lesser coaching stock as a result...

Using a combination or roco/Hornby close couplers, the only thing I have found is the potential for the corridor lamp brackets to get stuck or prang inside the gangway of the adjacent coach when coming out of second radius curves. Teasing the bracket backwards by half a mm carefully (i.e. don't snap it off) solves this problem. As will third radius curves.

 

They are wonderful models. My only criticisms are:

lack a bit of the finesse of latest models e.g. buffer beam detail.

the white roof examples could have done with a non-white base plastic for the roof (especially if u want to upgrade to full lighting)

The Bar Car pantry window should correctly be a three quarter height window and not a full height window as modelled, which is a shame.

 

But superb models

Below is photo from Parkins's now book and my own model. The angle is not quite correct on my end!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

20 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

Do the wheels still squeak?

All the Bachmann items I have with the split axle wheelset's pin points running in pressed metal dimples (to enable no incremental friction power collection where required* ) have been trouble free long term in this respect. (Pullman cars, Cravens DMU sets, Thompson carriages.) The odd axle bearing squeak when new, has been eliminated to date by my practise of application of a tiny amount of GT85 to all pipoint bearings.

 

*My annoyance, Bachmann seem to be increasingly responding to pressure to fit tender pick ups. If they have to do this, why not use this method, rather then wipers, which are a proven thief of traction when applied to unpowered wheels?

 

There may also be occasional squeaking in the first couple of hours test running when trains of carriages with the close coupling system (applies to both Bach and Hornby product) is being adjusted and exercised to ensure optimal operation, but once graphite powder has been deployed that is largely eliminated. Once in a while there's a quite realistic  'complaint' from within a train of close coupled coaches, usually as they go through a pointwork ladder; now I like that, happy memories of the regular traverse of KX station throat d'y'see!