A plea to content creators on YouTube to show Sound locos on DC

[Legend]

One thing I’ve never seen on YouTube is someone doing a review of a DCC Sound loco controlled on analogue or DC . Yes I know you won’t get all the functions but it would be interesting just to see how these locos do run . 
 

I’m analogue and with a huge fleet of trains I’m going to stay that way . But I do fancy having a sound loco I could use from time to time . Something distinctive like a Deltic , for instance , or the clatter of a Sulzer27 . Now I know Bachmann sound loco will run on analogue but I have heard speed very compromised . Would love to see how Accurascale and the new Heljan 47 locos run on DC 

 

Just a thought . A video showing what actually happens if you turn the controller up , when sounds kick in , what actual sounds you get, what the max speed of the loco is 

Edited March 21 by Legend
Terrible spelling !

[davknigh]

Short answer, on straight DC : you use a lot of voltage for a little sound and not much speed. For my “test drive” the locos in question were Rapido North American diesels and they started with appropriate starting noises, ran up to a walking pace but if the throttle was backed off too much the starting noises kicked in again. I have heard the same engines on full DCC and it is a completely different experience. If you are a dedicated DC user, like me, use your imagination for the sound or play a recording in the background. If you really want sound, bite the bullet and convert to DCC.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[adb968008]

Ditto…

 

Sound on DC is a bit of a dud.

i find a high start up amps is required to kick sound in, you really only have loco running noise, which is low responsive and you sacrifice a lot of top speed. When you reverse you have to be careful not to turn power down too much otherwise it shuts down, then restarts up etc… if you flick the direction switch quickly you can sometimes mitigate that and leave the engines running.

 

I did find on some locos unexpectedly if the loco is underpower but you flick direction forward and back again very rapidly it can generate a horn, ymmv but be quick as you can get unexpected motion consequences!

Edited March 21 by adb968008

[Legend]

Thanks for the replies guys . Kind of backs up what I was told about a Bachmann sound 37 barely making it round a layout it was crawling so slow .  Would be interested in how an Accurascale model performs though , especially a Deltic .  Again the plea is gor someone to review one on YouTube .  I’m just surprised no one has done it yet 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Perhaps post your request in the Acc. Deltic topic and see if anyone is willing to give at least a description of DC running, if not make a video?

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Perhaps post your request in the Acc. Deltic topic and see if anyone is willing to give at least a description of DC running, if not make a video?

I think the lack of videos says it all myself.

 

one thing you could do, for local sound is set up a dcc controller, wire it to a chip/harness / speaker next to your controller and output the motor wires to your track. It would eliminate loss from controller to chip, and send the 12v dc onwards.

 

you only need 1 dcc chip, per dc output that way, ok everything will sound the same, unless you swap the chip.

 

Alternatively ive bought a bluetooth speaker, and run sounds from my iphone before now. ive hidden it into a brakevan or a bsk.

It has a mic built in and one occasion a friend called and thought i was on a real train.

 

heres what it looked like whilst still in the box…

 

 

 

and later once extracted from that blue case hidden in a bv.

 

 

most of the recordings i used are from recording from carriage windows over the years between 5-10 mins long from start to stop (Midhants is a perfect line to record this length) and thats about what time I run a single loco on a layout.

 

thats bluetooth is about a fiver on amazon… much cheaper than dcc sound.

Edited March 21 by adb968008

[Jenny Emily]

Wiring the motor outputs from a decoder to the track will mean that for most decoders any short will pop the decoder. 

[Dungrange]

21 hours ago, Legend said:

Kind of backs up what I was told about a Bachmann sound 37 barely making it round a layout it was crawling so slow .  Would be interested in how an Accurascale model performs though , especially a Deltic .

 

No idea about the Accurascale Deltic, but my experience with the Accurascale 37 is similar to your description of the Bachmann version.  On the club's analogue layout, the loco moved before the engine sounds started up and it clearly draws more current that most analogue only locomotives.  Testing out a double headed 37 (both Accurascale DCC Sound) and I couldn't get the train to move.  That said, it's not just the locomotive you need to consider, but what DC controller you're using.  You can't use the DCC Sound on analogue if you use feedback controller.  We have some of the Gaugemaster versions (the black ones) in the club: they're no use.  Of the other handheld controllers we have in the club, the ones that we use with the O Gauge worked best, but I'm not sure who makes them.  They were able to get the Class 37 moving quicker than the Gaugemaster version would.  

 

I'd agree with others though, don't bother going for DCC Sound if you're committed to analogue.

[Tony Burgess]

On 21/03/2024 at 17:59, adb968008 said:

I think the lack of videos says it all myself.

 

one thing you could do, for local sound is set up a dcc controller, wire it to a chip/harness / speaker next to your controller and output the motor wires to your track. It would eliminate loss from controller to chip, and send the 12v dc onwards.

 

you only need 1 dcc chip, per dc output that way, ok everything will sound the same, unless you swap the chip.

 

Alternatively ive bought a bluetooth speaker, and run sounds from my iphone before now. ive hidden it into a brakevan or a bsk.

It has a mic built in and one occasion a friend called and thought i was on a real train.

 

heres what it looked like whilst still in the box…

 

 

 

and later once extracted from that blue case hidden in a bv.

 

 

most of the recordings i used are from recording from carriage windows over the years between 5-10 mins long from start to stop (Midhants is a perfect line to record this length) and thats about what time I run a single loco on a layout.

 

thats bluetooth is about a fiver on amazon… much cheaper than dcc sound.

Just to be clear - are you suggesting that the motor output from a sound decoder should be wired to the output of an analogue controller? 

I think I must have misunderstood what you suggest which sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.  I can't risk frying even cheap chips! 

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Tony Burgess said:

Just to be clear - are you suggesting that the motor output from a sound decoder should be wired to the output of an analogue controller? 

I think I must have misunderstood what you suggest which sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.  I can't risk frying even cheap chips! 

No thats not whats I said.

You wouldnt be using a DC controller at all in a DCC system, but i suspect you know this already.

but we are OT of DCC Sound on DC.

 

but if wanting a budget DCC set up,.. with a DCC controller and harness…

 

Quote

wire it to a chip/harness / speaker next to your controller and output the motor wires to your track

You can place the chip and harness wherever you like, under the board, in a station building but I put it next to my controller when i did it.

 

but with regard to…

 

On 22/03/2024 at 01:27, Jenny Emily said:

Wiring the motor outputs from a decoder to the track will mean that for most decoders any short will pop the decoder. 

So be sure of your track.

Some discussion here on this..

https://www.slotforum.com/threads/short-circuit-protection-for-track.209983/

But if youve got doubts, then dont do it obviously.

its not much different to buying and using one of these…

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961034006.html?gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt
 

and subbing the motor in that cradle, to being wires to the track. (And dont throw that motor away, its the same motor as used in many major brands models).

ultimately what outputs from your chip to the motor is the dc power the motor needs to work… on a normal DC operated layout its DC from controller to motor without the DCC chip. In a DCC operated layout its AC to the chip which is converting to DC for that final output to the motor… but ultimately your DC or DCC fitted loco has the same DC motor inside… its about where it gets its DC from…

 

Should note that any shorts can damage your chips, DCC or DC.. chips are very finicky things Ive found, hence I dont use DCC but a couple of chips for hundreds of locos is better than hundreds of chips for hundreds of locos.

 

Ultimately I believe the clock is ticking on DCC and standard wifi will replace it giving unlimited flexibility rather than tv remote control tech, which brings us back to topic… and why you might want to stay DC but get sound without DCC..

 

admittedly the excitement of DCc sound wore off so I dont use it now, I went to the bluetooth speaker system instead using my own sound using DC whenever I feel the urge and thats basically free….

i was going to write an app for this, but saw Hornby did txs, though i think they missed it.

 

Edited March 25 by adb968008

[Tony Burgess]

23 hours ago, adb968008 said:

No thats not whats I said.

You wouldnt be using a DC controller at all in a DCC system, but i suspect you know this already.

but we are OT of DCC Sound on DC.

 

but if wanting a budget DCC set up,.. with a DCC controller and harness…

 

You can place the chip and harness wherever you like, under the board, in a station building but I put it next to my controller when i did it.

 

but with regard to…

 

So be sure of your track.

Some discussion here on this..

https://www.slotforum.com/threads/short-circuit-protection-for-track.209983/

But if youve got doubts, then dont do it obviously.

its not much different to buying and using one of these…

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961034006.html?gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt
 

and subbing the motor in that cradle, to being wires to the track. (And dont throw that motor away, its the same motor as used in many major brands models).

ultimately what outputs from your chip to the motor is the dc power the motor needs to work… on a normal DC operated layout its DC from controller to motor without the DCC chip. In a DCC operated layout its AC to the chip which is converting to DC for that final output to the motor… but ultimately your DC or DCC fitted loco has the same DC motor inside… its about where it gets its DC from…

 

Should note that any shorts can damage your chips, DCC or DC.. chips are very finicky things Ive found, hence I dont use DCC but a couple of chips for hundreds of locos is better than hundreds of chips for hundreds of locos.

 

Ultimately I believe the clock is ticking on DCC and standard wifi will replace it giving unlimited flexibility rather than tv remote control tech, which brings us back to topic… and why you might want to stay DC but get sound without DCC..

 

admittedly the excitement of DCc sound wore off so I dont use it now, I went to the bluetooth speaker system instead using my own sound using DC whenever I feel the urge and thats basically free….

i was going to write an app for this, but saw Hornby did txs, though i think they missed it.

 

OK I think I've understood.  You are looking at eg using 2 sound decoders - one for diesels & one for steam locos - with DCC controller, for unchipped locos on the layout. 

Interesting, and in many ways attractive.

The main drawback being that all locos of each type sound the same.   I'd soon be frustrated with a DMU or Deltic sounding like a Class 20.  I can also foresee possible problems in "track resistance" affecting eg back emf. 

Have you tested this?  I might. 

Edited March 26 by Tony Burgess
Adding a word for clarity

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, Tony Burgess said:

OK I think I've understood.  You are looking at eg using 2 sound decoders - one for diesels & one for steam locos - with DCC controller, for unchipped locos on the layout. 

Interesting, and in many ways attractive.

The main drawback being that all locos of each type sound the same.   I'd soon be frustrated with a DMU or Deltic sounding like a Class 20.  I can also foresee possible problems in "track resistance" affecting eg back emf. 

Have you tested this?  I might.

i never tried emf,  i was also tempted to put my track cleaner in there but was worried its effects to the chip, so I stayed away from doing it.

 

Overall using a Gaugemaster prodigy, it worked ok, it gave me a good turn of speed, which a standard DCC sound loco running DC failed to give. (I have a few sound chips, 31,47, 55,66, Bulleid which I swapped out between harnesses)

 

Thing to remember is dc rules still apply.. isolating track sections etc, as its still a DC layout… and its 1 track/train per DC controller, so if you had a 2 track set up on DC, you need two DCC harnesses / track output (maybe number the chips as 001/002/003 etc, which is a cost, and gets confusing if you scale up. (i have 4 tracks, but only ever tried one and didnt try running a loco from one track to another at speed (which I do sometimes do in DC).

 

You could also have a DPDT switch.. with your DC controller track output in one side, your DCC controller ->DCC Chip -> output Motor wires going into the other and the track exiting the centre pins and thus flip between DCC and DC operation onto the track. Having seen pictures of melting bodies and smouldering track using DCC it felt a little reassuring that only regular 12vdc was going to my track, and “off” still means 0volts at the rail unlike DCC which is always on at max, even if the loco isnt.

 

 

it was a fun exercise, and I did it really for the challenge, its potentially cheap, but my layout was too big to be practical, but a small uncomplex layout I could imagine being ok. Thing is the sound doesnt move with the loco, as the speakers in a static location… (for me Hornys tts whistle of the mn at speed was best). I didnt blow any chips doing it, but I see Jennys potential for it there.

Ultimately I didnt wholesale move to DCC as the chip budget would kill me, and i’d need to rewire most of my layout, not to mention a lifetime of tweaking cvs etc… a simple bluetooth speaker / iphone and some synchronised control of my controler gives me some sounds (and as I recorded them myself, brings memories too), its cheap and i’m not sacrificing vdc for sound instead of movement.

 

Edited March 26 by adb968008

[Tony Burgess]

On 26/03/2024 at 11:06, adb968008 said:

i never tried emf,  i was also tempted to put my track cleaner in there but was worried its effects to the chip, so I stayed away from doing it.

 

Overall using a Gaugemaster prodigy, it worked ok, it gave me a good turn of speed, which a standard DCC sound loco running DC failed to give. (I have a few sound chips, 31,47, 55,66, Bulleid which I swapped out between harnesses)

 

Thing to remember is dc rules still apply.. isolating track sections etc, as its still a DC layout… and its 1 track/train per DC controller, so if you had a 2 track set up on DC, you need two DCC harnesses / track output (maybe number the chips as 001/002/003 etc, which is a cost, and gets confusing if you scale up. (i have 4 tracks, but only ever tried one and didnt try running a loco from one track to another at speed (which I do sometimes do in DC).

 

You could also have a DPDT switch.. with your DC controller track output in one side, your DCC controller ->DCC Chip -> output Motor wires going into the other and the track exiting the centre pins and thus flip between DCC and DC operation onto the track. Having seen pictures of melting bodies and smouldering track using DCC it felt a little reassuring that only regular 12vdc was going to my track, and “off” still means 0volts at the rail unlike DCC which is always on at max, even if the loco isnt.

 

 

it was a fun exercise, and I did it really for the challenge, its potentially cheap, but my layout was too big to be practical, but a small uncomplex layout I could imagine being ok. Thing is the sound doesnt move with the loco, as the speakers in a static location… (for me Hornys tts whistle of the mn at speed was best). I didnt blow any chips doing it, but I see Jennys potential for it there.

Ultimately I didnt wholesale move to DCC as the chip budget would kill me, and i’d need to rewire most of my layout, not to mention a lifetime of tweaking cvs etc… a simple bluetooth speaker / iphone and some synchronised control of my controler gives me some sounds (and as I recorded them myself, brings memories too), its cheap and i’m not sacrificing vdc for sound instead of movement.

 

Thank you for sharing details of your tests.