Point Motors.

[GrumpyPenguin]

Like many modeller I "grew up" with Peco points & solenoid point motors, such as Peco's own & the bombproof H & M.

 

But I do wonder why modellers still persist with such clunky mechanisms & the need to install a CDU to operate them ?

 

The only reall issue to me seems to be the strenth of the overcentre spring in the Peco points.

 

The European manufactures can produce points that operate with tiny solenoids that draw around half an amp & they are reliable. Most of them have "end-off" switching too. The effort to move them is about the same as that of a Peco without the spring.

 

Is it a legancy (we've always done it like that) thing, like the 4 x 2 layoit module that can fit on the back seat of a car ?

 

FWIW I am currently using Peco points and MTB point motots (a very cost-effective range with many switching variants & a DCC version on the way).

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

A lot of modellers remove the over centre spring.  Other point motors are available. 

 

But the solenoid type remains popular is it is cheaper than the fancy slow-motion devices, and funding is a big issue for most modellers.

To my mind reliance on point blades making contact with the stock rail is a bigger issue than those springs - that unreliability is the main reason the spring is there at all.

[stewartingram]

I have used Seep 'motors' for years, as they are usually the cheapest. Apart from the inbuilt frog swithc, I find them reliable, but worthy of improvement. The points (sorry) that I am on about are as follows.

1) frog switch. As a (retires) electronics engineer, I can only say these are rubbish.

If the track is already laid, fitting them from underneath a baseboard is difficult as they have to be aligned correctly, otherwise they are unreliable.

3) In addition, getting the wire pin through the point tiebar is very awkward.

I have devised a simple baseplate to overcome all of these. Once the Seep is mounted on the plate, the tiebar wire is much simpler to locate within the tiebar. A crocodile clip on the wire above the baseboard will hold it, whilst I go underneath the board to screw it in place. Prior to fitting, I mark the position of the point, drawing a line across the point (underneath) so thati t is located at the correct angle. I use a small plasticard gauge to centrally locate the armature within its travel, and I also lock the point blades in mid travel. The new plastcard base also has a proper electronics microswitch screwed to it for the frog switching. And finally, the original drive pin no longer moves the tiebar; instead it moves a piece of copperclad sleeper, the end of which drives the tiebar via anew brass wire (trimmed to length when finished).

At first glance this soumds complicated, but actually it is quite easy. About 10-15 mins work, with much easier installation and better reliability.

I don't have any pics, but can take some if wanted.

[john new]

Personally, even though the noise is unrealistic, the fact you actually hear it go over and the propellant force ensures it goes over makes the traditional PECO and solenoid option the one I will continue to use whilst it remains available.

[Michael Hodgson]

49 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

I have used Seep 'motors' for years, as they are usually the cheapest. Apart from the inbuilt frog swithc, I find them reliable, but worthy of improvement. The points (sorry) that I am on about are as follows.

1) frog switch. As a (retires) electronics engineer, I can only say these are rubbish.

If the track is already laid, fitting them from underneath a baseboard is difficult as they have to be aligned correctly, otherwise they are unreliable.

3) In addition, getting the wire pin through the point tiebar is very awkward.

I have devised a simple baseplate to overcome all of these. Once the Seep is mounted on the plate, the tiebar wire is much simpler to locate within the tiebar. A crocodile clip on the wire above the baseboard will hold it, whilst I go underneath the board to screw it in place. Prior to fitting, I mark the position of the point, drawing a line across the point (underneath) so thati t is located at the correct angle. I use a small plasticard gauge to centrally locate the armature within its travel, and I also lock the point blades in mid travel. The new plastcard base also has a proper electronics microswitch screwed to it for the frog switching. And finally, the original drive pin no longer moves the tiebar; instead it moves a piece of copperclad sleeper, the end of which drives the tiebar via anew brass wire (trimmed to length when finished).

At first glance this soumds complicated, but actually it is quite easy. About 10-15 mins work, with much easier installation and better reliability.

I don't have any pics, but can take some if wanted.

Agreed that the SEEP switch is cr*p, and that these motors are a complete

pain to install - athough not as bad as trying to clip a Peco PL10 to the point from below!  At least the PM2 version without the frog switch is cheaper than their PM1.

 

Interesting approach to installation; sounds like something that would warrant a cheap kit if you have a lot of points to motorise, maybe something that could be knocked up using 3D printing?

 

47 minutes ago, john new said:

Personally, even though the noise is unrealistic, the fact you actually hear it go over and the propellant force ensures it goes over makes the traditional PECO and solenoid option the one I will continue to use whilst it remains available.

 

...and especially loud if you use a CDU.  For a while I had one with a large capacitance and a diode matrix that fired half a dozen points at once.  But if there were only one or two points on the route sounded like a rifle shot!    Bad idea - I quickly did away with that because I was afraid it would damage the point blades by applying excessive force.

[stewartingram]

Just to add that my base idea is very cheap and easy, Only thing to buy in are microswitches from ebay at a few pence each. Other parts are thick plasticard, a piece of copperclad sleeper strip,  a few nuts and bolts, and a piece of brass wire. All those I had laying around.

Forgot to add that I now add some chock-block connectors (6-way) so that it is easier to wire up. I'll get a pic tomorrow.