How heavy are baseboards?

[Hal Nail]

12 hours ago, Halton Boy said:

 

 

I have revised the plan to allow more box vans in the loop:

 

 

I'd have the left hand crossing from main to loop right over on the left with room for a loco but no more, making the loop longer. however the right hand entrance to the loop and sidings would be a facing point from the main otherwise you cant really access the lower siding properly.

 

In fact to be honest its more arranged as if the head shunt is the main line - but if you do that flip the loco release at the left hand end

Edited April 15 by Hal Nail

[Halton Boy]

Hello everyone

Yes the skate board is the answer.

I could fit low protection boards to the front, end and back. this would protect the the rails and stop stock falling on the floor during operation.

I am trying to decide on the best type of fiddle yard to use.  I was going to use cassettes.

As this is a layout I can use for now, I will purchase a fiddle yard along with the base boards.

Here are the options:

There are two tracks on to the fiddle yard.

Some of my engines are not easy to pick up and turn around due to the detail on them.

The turntable is £115 and traverser is £145.

 

What are the best clamps to use when assembling the base boards?

The best options I can find are:

A band clamp £10.98 or spring clamps £15.99 for two.

 

I am going to fit a length of wood under all the boards adjacent to the holes in the struts so that I can fit panel trunking for the wiring:

This is available from RS Components and electrical wholesalers.

The trunking will run the length of each board.

From the trunking I run the wiring in spiral wrap:

Thank you for your help and advice.

Ken

[Michael Hodgson]

If you run all the wires together in trunking like that, you may suffer interference problems, especially with DCC.   It may well be OK, but it's preferable to run DCC cabling separately to avoid that risk..

[Halton Boy]

Hi Hal

The crossover is on the second board because it will not fit on the left hand board with room for an engine:

I have laid it out above. The track for the engine is 300mm long which is a bit short for my 2-6-2 prairie tank. The gap between the end of the track and the end of the board is 75mm.

The layout is not a station it is just a shunting yard.

But I agree the layout as planned looks a bit odd.

I need to work on this.

Ken

[Halton Boy]

Hi Michael

Yes you are correct. The trunking is for the points and signals wiring which is analogue.

I will run a separate bus bar using 2.5mm single for the DCC power.

Ken

[Halton Boy]

Hi everyone

I think the boards will be the best solution.

it is just the track layout that is worrying me.

I have done the plan again, but cannot come up with a better idea.

This is another version.

 As always the baseboard joins are the problem.

Ken

[Halton Boy]

Hello everyone

I have changed the layout, but it means changing the size of the base boards.

 

The first board is now 1500mm x 400mm.

I have asked  Grainge and Hodder for a price for 1500mm x 400mm and 900mm x 400mm

base boards.

I hope the 1500mm x 400mm board will not be too awkward to move and set up.

 

The temptation is to extend the kick back siding onto the traverser.

I will let you know what they say.

Ken

 

[GWR57xx]

Just a suggestion: you could keep the left hand board to 1200mm if you don’t mind having the centre of the leftmost crossover straddling the join. Perhaps have a very short straight between the turnouts on the crossover track to avoid cutting the turnouts themselves.

[Hal Nail]

6 hours ago, Halton Boy said:

Hi everyone

I think the boards will be the best solution.

it is just the track layout that is worrying me.

I have done the plan again, but cannot come up with a better idea.

This is another version.

 As always the baseboard joins are the problem.

Ken

 

Its having both crossovers in the same direction that seems unusual I think. Usually as you come off the main line you'd have a facing point leading to everything, not a trailing cross over you cant actually access.

[34006]

Nothing wrong with facing points on a main line,that's what facing point locks are for.

 

Phil

[Nearholmer]

9mm ply is about 3.5 to 4.5kg sq metre, depending on quality, so call it 4, and double the actual area to allow for the underlying frame of ply, roughly 6kg.

 

Which doesn’t sound a lot, but actually becomes quite a devil to handle alone to the size/shape.

 

I’ve got an 0 gauge layout that has to be dismantled and packed away when the spare room is needed, on White Rose 9mm ply base-boards, two of which are 1000x750 and fold together as a pair. Together, they are really awkward to handle by myself - I can’t lift them direct onto the trestles due to the combination of weight and bulk, so have a routine that raises them in stages (too complex to explain, but it works!).

 

So ……. I’d think seriously about whether you might be edging towards what is practical to handle alone. Probably OK if there is plenty of space for manoeuvre, but possibly not if space is tight.

 

The White Rose 9mm boards are truly beautiful quality, and built like the proverbial. For a small 00 BLT I’m doing, which is meant to be super-portable, I’ve used the G&H 6mm boards, and by comparison they are light as feathers. The G&H ply is not only thinner, but much less dense, so not quite as robust, but robust enough for practical purposes. Prior to these two layouts, I’ve always built my own boards, many down the years, some successes in terms of weight/size/portability, some abject failures! The failures have always been on grounds of size/bulk, not sheer weight, incidentally. A 10kg bag of spuds isn’t heavy, but a 10kg model railway layout board would be a serious problem.

 

 

Edited April 15 by Nearholmer

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, 34006 said:

Nothing wrong with facing points on a main line,that's what facing point locks are for.

 

Phil

I didn't say there was.

 

I suggested having to reverse to get into sidings when they could just as easily have provided direct access, was a bit odd.

[Halton Boy]

Hello everyone

A quick update on the base boards.

A 1500 x 400mm base board is too large to be delivered.

I have asked for a price for a 900 x 400mm board and a 600 x 400mm board.

I can then fix the two boards together permanently, giving me a 1500 x 400mm board.

 

Below is a plan of the layout:

The idea of the operation is that an engine and three wagons run into the main section over the trailing points.

The engine uncouples and runs around the loop into the head shunt.

The engine runs runs off the head shunt and couples up to the rear wagon. 

The engine draws the wagons into the head shunt.

The engine shunts the wagons into siding A or B.

To get wagons into siding C the engine can reverse the wagons over the first crossing into the head shunt.

The fun starts when there are wagons already in the sidings A,B and C.

Facing point locks will not be modelled.

 

Please let me know what you think.

Ken

[GWR57xx]

My understanding is that facing point locks are to protect passenger carrying lines, so if you have no passenger facilities nor a through passenger line then they would not be needed anyway.

Saves you having to worry about leaving them out!

[GWR57xx]

Also, if this is a goods only sidings then the turnouts would probably be controlled by ground levers, so no need for a signal box or point rodding. Also probably no signals.

[Halton Boy]

Hello everyone

You are right about the signals.

I wanted to put them in because I like them.

Perhaps it was a station once that has been repurposed?

Here is an amended diagram with signals added:

 

If I alter the track so that there are facing points:

The points marked with a red star are on a base board join and siding B is shorter.

 

Could I just have four ground signals?

I will have to think about the plan.

Thank you for your help.

Ken

[Hal Nail]

One option to consider is that if two tracks are coming into view from the fiddle yard/sector plate, you don't actually need to model the initial cross over. A train can appear on the main line, and the loco run round partially out of sight, then draw the train back out and reappear on the loop line. An old trick which allows you to accommodate longer trains

 

Edited April 16 by Hal Nail

[Harlequin]

Hi Ken,

 

You're making repeated changes and compromises for practical reasons that are getting you further and further away from your initial vision!

 

The plan is completely covered by track. There's no room for much scenery now, removable or not. There are no loading docks, no coal staithes, no goods shed, no wagon repair shed and because of the lack of room for any infrastructure there's no real reason to move a wagon to any particular position. So all you're left with is aimless shunting, which will quickly become very boring.

 

I really suggest designing the layout based on what you really want from it, within some basic constraints, and do that holistically thinking about the whole scene, not just the track plan. Then worry about the baseboards and only make minor tweaks to your desired plan as far as possible. If the tweaks start to badly affect the plan then rethink from first principles.

 

And don't get fixed on a particular baseboard supplier if they can't meet your spec for size and weight - look for alternatives.

 

[2mmMark]

I have a 2mm layout which has a 1200mm by 400mm main board, mostly 9mm ply. It started off reasonably light but once track, scenery, buildings, uncoupler electromagnets etc. were added, it's now quite heavy.

Also 1200mm is a little too long to fit widthways in many modern cars. It was fine in my Peugeot 305 estate but awkward in my current Skoda Roomster.

I'd recommend looking at Gordon Gravett's method of using extruded polystyrene foam insulation to build light yet strong baseboards, and cutting the length down to between 900mm to 1000mm as suits your track plan.

Mark

Edited April 16 by 2mmMark

[Hibelroad]

The Gordon Gravett method of building baseboards is outlined in MRJ 235 (available as a back number). I really do mean to try it, just need to get the layout planned first. I did get to handle one of his sample beams at York a few years back, they weigh nothing but seem to be strong enough for the job. 

[Hibelroad]

Just had a look online and it looks like MRJ 235 has sold out. Maybe everyone is building baseboards! 

[Halton Boy]

Hello everyone

Thank you for all your input.

This layout is only going to be temporary until I retire.

I have driven steam trains, and it was really good, but what I would like is to be a signal man.

Therefore the points and signals are the main thing.

 

I have changed the plan again:

 

This layout is now 16 feet long. Although the scenic section is 12 foot.

I would really like to model a main line junction, but I do not have the space.

 

I met  Gordon and Maggie Gravett years ago when they had Pempoul.

They got me into railway modelling.

I could never build a layout as good as they do, so I will just model the track and signals.

It is cheaper as well.  I do not have the time to build sheds etc.

 

For some reason I like to see the engine run round the train, that's why I have both sets of crossovers.

Ken

[Taigatrommel]

Hi Ken,

 

I'm using Grainge & Hodder boards, I quite like them. In your planning, bear in mind that the traverser only slides one direction with the supplied runners, so a track coming in  from the centre of a baseboard will only be able to access half of the tracks on the traverser.  If a turntable board is long enough for the trains you wish to run, it will have an added benefit of reducing the handling of stock. However, I opted for traversers to be able to run as continuous or end to end and to be able to use two as one longer fiddle yard.

Edited April 16 by Taigatrommel
Correcting autocorrect

[Halton Boy]

Hi Taigatrommel

That is a good point you have made.

How far does the traverser slide in one direction.

This is the 1200 x 400mm traverser:

I will have to find out how much the top moves.

With my present plan it will need to move at least 139mm.

 

I might remake the plan using a turn table one end and a traverser at the other end.

This is a 400 x 400mm turntable:

I could always mount the turntable or traverser off centre to the main boards.

Lots more to think about.

Ken

[Taigatrommel]

Hi Ken,

 

In the direction they slide, the Grainge & Hodder traversers move all but 50mm of their width, in the case of a 400mm board, that's 350mm of movement. In the other direction, no movement!  So in your plan layout track A can align with all fiddle yard tracks but layout track B would only only align with fiddle yard tracks labelled B. Now I realise two tracks exit the layout to fiddle yard, I think traversers may be the most sensible option, as aligning track A with a turntable might be awkward. 

 

Edited April 17 by Taigatrommel