Saturn 4 ultra - I just bought one

[monkeysarefun]

As the topic says, I bought an ultra 4  in  tonights midnights pre-release.

 

I already have a Saturn 8k and a saturn 3 Ultra so I'm not sure why  I need this but I liked the camera idea and the vat that tilts and I have a bit of a disposable income due to living in Australia so why not? 

 

 I'll report back when it turns up and let you know if its much of an advance on the Ultra 3, or even my Saturn 2 8k, which is an awesome printer and the one I'd recommend to anyone who was getting into resin printing at the moment.

Edited April 15 by monkeysarefun

[njee20]

Does look very interesting. I need to work out if the marked reduction in Z height is a problem for anything I print. 
 

as ever with us it’s a gamble on pre-ordering and getting stung with taxes versus just waiting until Amazon have stock. The prices are compelling though. 

[monkeysarefun]

9 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Does look very interesting. I need to work out if the marked reduction in Z height is a problem for anything I print. 
 

as ever with us it’s a gamble on pre-ordering and getting stung with taxes versus just waiting until Amazon have stock. The prices are compelling though. 

 

 

Yay for living here in that I don't get hit with any kind of tax issue , and the postage from China is usually free, though this time its $20 or so. 

 

This was purely a spur of the moment purchase because I am perfectly happy with my Ultra 3. 

 

And when I bought THAT, I was perfectly happy with my Saturn 2 8K.   I guess I am just a sucker for "BUY NOW"   buttons!

Edited April 15 by monkeysarefun

[njee20]

Haha, they’re very tempting! I eschewed the 3 as the 2 is great, but I feel I may ‘need’ a 4! Look forward to hearing about it either way 👍

[jaym481]

Are they shipping immediately? The Elegoo Canada "store" says "shipping June/July." 

[monkeysarefun]

13 hours ago, jaym481 said:

Are they shipping immediately? The Elegoo Canada "store" says "shipping June/July." 

 

 

June is the date here too, although when I ordered my Saturn 3 Ultra in the pre-sale last year the shipping was estimated to be two months time  but I got an email saying it was on its way about 2 weeks after I put the order in so who knows? 

 

 (When checking that I saw that I paid  US$499US for the Saturn 3 Ultra, compared to US$399 for the Saturn 4....)

[F2Andy]

Some interesting features that I would love to have, but not sure I can justify...

 

Looks like it has a PFA film rather than ACF. Does that indicate PFA is superior?

[monkeysarefun]

52 minutes ago, F2Andy said:

Some interesting features that I would love to have, but not sure I can justify...

 

Looks like it has a PFA film rather than ACF. Does that indicate PFA is superior?

 

 

The Saturn Ultra 3 had ACF film as-shipped. It is more rubbery looking and quite cloudy. Its apparent main reason for being is that it allows faster print times (though you need high-speed resin).  The disadvantage of it that I found is that it is less hard wearing than PFA and mine got a small tear in it within  the first week. As a stopgap I took the PFA equipped  vat from the Saturn 2 and used that as is, since its a straight swap - and have been using it without issues for the last 12 months. I don't need fast print times so the ACF is not needed and I've not bothered ordering replacement ACF.

 

Additionally, its been claimed that ACF prints are less detailed than ones done with PFA and I definitely found that out when I bought an  Anycubic M5s or whatever it was called that  used ACF film.  The prints were markedly  inferior to what the Saturn 2 had given me even though it was 12K vs 8K, so I sent it back and got the Ultra 3 instead.  I didn't do enough high detail prints on the Ultra 3 before the FEP got damaged so I can't say if that printer has the same print quality  issues using ACF,  but youtube reviews I've seen suggest it doesn't.

Edited April 19 by monkeysarefun

[jaym481]

How much does the vat move on the Saturn 4 Ultra? I'm putting a heater band on my Saturn 8k, and wonder if I were to try the same on the 4 Ultra would it foul the mechanism.

[monkeysarefun]

31 minutes ago, jaym481 said:

How much does the vat move on the Saturn 4 Ultra? I'm putting a heater band on my Saturn 8k, and wonder if I were to try the same on the 4 Ultra would it foul the mechanism.

 

This guy has the same issue, looks like it wont work (Starting at the 11:10 mark if it doesn't jump there already).

 

Although I live in Sydney it can get cold downstairs in my printing room in winter - down to 17 or so. I bought a small heater from the supermarket for about 25 dollars and sit that beside the printer when I need to print at those times.  

 

 

[jaym481]

I saw that video, and he mentions that the Thermal Vat Band which is a strip of heating elements inside a thin (less than 1mm I think) case that adheres to the tank might fit. The "band" is 1" wide, so if the tank has 1" of the side that doesn't decend into the chassis with the tilt, it just might work. My basement printer room has the same issue as you - in winter the temperature gets down to 17C and sometimes lower. I also have a portable heater for the room, but I don't think it's adequate to get the resin in the vat up to 25C or more. I have a Thermal Vat Band on order for my Saturn 8K, so I'll have a better idea of size etc. 

[ianmaccormac]

He also said a chamber heater wouldn't work but I bought one a few weeks back and it is giving very good results in my Saturn 2, heating the build plate and the resin to above 25 degrees within about 20 minutes and then, because it has a thermostatic switch, it turns off most of the time. I start printing and when the print has started the UV light underneath heats the resin quite well and the heater hardly gets used.

I am considering a purchase of the Saturn 4 as large loco and carriage body parts being released more effectively, appeals.

Cheers, Ian

[jaym481]

It looks like there's room for a chamber heater, in fact Elegoo plan to bring one out specifically for the Saturn 4 soon. Which heater did you get @ianmaccormac? I may just go that route if I end up with the Saturn 4 as the replacement for my aging Saturn 8k (well, not that old, but I could do with a few of the ergonomic improvements of the 4.)

[ianmaccormac]

Mini Heater for 3D Printer, HCSSZ Lightweight 3D Resin Printer Temperature Controller Heating Thermostat Temp Control with Activated Carbon Filter for LCD DLP 3D Printers

Brand: HCSSZ

Bought from Amazon. I thought about a slightly cheaper version of the same thing from AliExpress but needed it quicker as it was early January so paid the extra 8 pounds from Amazon. Working well.

Cheers, Ian

[monkeysarefun]

Heres my heater and its approximate location when printing. Its probably not the most economical of solutions re power consumption but there's only about 2 months of the year that I need it and I only run it for the first 30 minutes or so of each print, once the bottom layer has stuck the rest goes ok.

 

 

After 5 years printing I finally discovered how to keep sticky resin fingers off of the printer cover - don't remove the plastic packing film it came wrapped in!!  (wont work for the Ultra 4 with its flippy cover though....)

[njee20]

Leaned the same myself and left the plastic on most of my printers! Looks differently rubbish!

[monkeysarefun]

Yay.

 

 

[njee20]

Excellent, look forward to the feedback! Uncle Jessy raved about both the 4 and the 4/Ultra.

 

Decided I'm going to try and consolidate a few printers and potentially get a couple of Saturn 4s, the pricing on them is exceptional.

[monkeysarefun]

10 hours ago, njee20 said:

Excellent, look forward to the feedback! Uncle Jessy raved about both the 4 and the 4/Ultra.

 

Decided I'm going to try and consolidate a few printers and potentially get a couple of Saturn 4s, the pricing on them is exceptional.

 

 

I've done a quick test plot or two, when I get a bit more under my belt I'll write  up a bit of a blurb on my thoughts, compare it to my Ultra 3 etc...

[monkeysarefun]

For those interested, here's some thoughts on the printer so far.  From the youtube videos I've seen its had a pretty positive response and I can agree with that.

 

(Please note that the printers I mention here are the ones I've had personal experience with, I'm sure that Creality, Formlabs etc are just as good or better, me not mentioning them has nothing to do with how I feel about   them, I've just never used them so please don't post "you didn't compare it with the Form 3 plus!" or whatever) 

 

 

 

I began  3D printing  in 2018 with the original Anycubic Photon and through a series of printers since then - Original Mars, original Saturn, Mars 3 Ultra, Saturn 2 8K, Anycubic m5s, Saturn Ultra 3 and now this one, I've seen a lot of enhancements and development.

 

First up - the price. I found the email order for my original Anycubic photon bought in 2018. With a discount code and free delivery it cost me $627.00 Oz dollars. In contrast, buying the Ultra 4 on pre-sale and spending $30 delivery, it cost me $647.00 so we are getting a bargain.

 

  Here they are to compare:

 

 

Most of the  improvements in resin printers  up to now though  were in either printer size or resolution -  the  Ultra 4 is the first printer amongst that list I've owned that has enough new features to make it worth putting some words together for anyone thinking about upgrading or just getting another printer.

 

Firstly -  the print quality. In the  10"  printer screen range that this is part of, I reckon the Saturn 2 8K  and its equivalents are capable of printing detail that is more than sufficient for model railways. My main subjects are N scale architectural details, buildings, and vehicles. For that purpose the Saturn 8K is perfectly capable. I did get sucked into the "12K!" marketing of the Saturn 3 Ultra but I honestly cannot see any better quality in the print output with my naked eye. So if you have a 10 inch  8K printer  that you are happy with but are thinking of upgrading for that reason alone, I wouldnt bother. 

 

Still, I'm never happy and am always seeking out the NextBigThing  so  I'm glad I got the Ultra 3 because I hated the way that the build plate on the Saturn 2 was fixed - a ball mount which once levelled had two screws that tightened against the ball to fix in place. In practice I found one screw was always coming undone no matter how tightly I screwed it up. Therefore I was always re-levelling that plate after every  half a dozen prints or so. In comparison the Ultra 3 had a 4 point mounting that once levelled stayed rock solid from the first time I levelled it, that alone was worth the upgrade and one of the reasons I went for it. It also had WiFi, which although with that printer it was  limited to sending a file to the printer that  was a vast improvement on the sticky resiny USB stick I was using on the printers up to then, so that was the other reason for getting it.

 

I've been really happy with the Ultra 3, I've not had a single print failure in the 9 months I've been using it and I do feel a bit of a cad that I went behind its back when the Ultra 4 went on pre-sale! The only complaint I had   about the Ultra 3 was that Elegoo got sucked into the ACF (?) FEP in search of  the false god of "Faster  printing". In reality my ACF tore  in about 3 days due to it being softer. This was the first FEP failure I'd ever had and given that fast printing with it required special resin that was too dear here I just replaced it with whatever the latest "normal" FEP is - NFEP?  and have never looked back.

 

So I was happy to see that the Ultra 4 has abandoned that stupid ACF and returned to normality, I guess ACF is the equivalent of 3D tellies. 

 

SO finally........... I have reached the Ultra 4.

 

Why did I get it given the Ultra 3 is a brilliant printer?  Well,  I just deleted a paragraph I'd written about how the features attracted me, because it was actually basically the price, and I'm a sucker for shiny new things.

 

The first thing I discovered after unboxing it was its amazing how easy it was to set up. Put it on the workbench, peel off the protective film from the vat and the LCD screen, screw in the WIFI aerial, add wifi password, pour in resin and its ready to go. NO more levelling attempts with some stupid bit of cardboard under the build plate or having to put up with the experts in printer facebook groups arguing about how you should level it in the vat, or with a piece of paper, or with 2 pieces of paper, or with cardboard tc etc - that alone is worth the price. 

 

The second great thing is the tilt lid. Apart from my original Anycubic which had a little front door,  every other printer had had a lid that needs to be removed and placed down somewhere. This tilt lid is amazingly good in comparison. 

 

Third thing is as mentioned, no need to go through the pain of levelling the thing.

 

Next iup would be the WIFI connectivity. I'm fortunate that the printer sits about 2 feet from my WIFI router so it gets a great connection, which means that File transfers etc are very fast, I'm not sure if I'd be as impressed with the WiFi  if it was further away from the router  and was laggy, but I'm just going on my experience.

 

. Like I said, the Ultra 3 WIFI was limited to file transfer, this printer utilises it to  be really useful.

 

(Now, the following is dependant on using Chitubox as the slicer but apparently other slicers are looking to add the same capabilities).

 

Firstly, you can  sit at your laptop on the lounge and see the progress of the print via Chitubox, in both percentage done and also via the camera that is located in the back right corner of the printer:

 

 

 

Since my printer room is in a kind of basement down dark narrow stairs this is such a luxury to sit on the lounge and check out the progress on the laptop rather than risk the stairs every 10 minutes or so to check to see if the print was done. 

 

The next upgrade worth spending the money on is the tilting vat. This is a genuine time saver. A print that took 3 hours 30 minutes on the Ultra 3 took 2 hours 20 minutes  on this one. Additionally the tilting motion seems to produce a gentler separation  motion than the plate lifting method because I've printed things that have very fine details that were often lost on the Ultra 3,  I assume due to the brutal  peeling method, whereas the gentler tilting method of the Ultra 4 means I've had more successful printing of fine details - for instance, the brake cables and mirrors  etc on this bike,

 

 

 

and the fine foliage on the bottom of this statue. I've previously printed this on the Ultra 3 and lost the fine leaves. 

 

 

 

 

The next thing that is a nice feature that its inherited from the Ultra 3 is the laser etched build plate. Getting prints to stick and then getting them off without a hammer and chisel seems to be the main issue with resin printers. Using this build plate on both the Ultra 3 and now the Ultra 4, I've not had a single print fail to stick and as a bonus, removing them is a simple matter of just sliding the supplied scraper under one corner and gently prising it off. Perhaps the etch prevents suction that makes it difficult or impossible to remove prints from smooth build plates, but its so nice to not need to bash away at your model that took half a day  to print only to have it snap in half. 

 

So, are there any downsides? My one and only so far given I've only had it for 2 days is that when you release the build plate there is very little to grip it. the mounting, which is where you naturally hold it, is about 30mm tall and tapers to the top and given its design its quite heavy so the risk of it slipping out of your gloved hand, especially if it has resin on it is scary, given that it'd drop into the vat and its weight would probably smash the LCD. 

Weirdly all the youtubers mention the lack of a handle on the lifting lid, which can be easily lifted by just pressing against it and which is at most an annoyance, but don't mention the much greater risk of dropping the build plate due to lack of grips on it

 

 

So would I recommend this printer? At the end of the day, the print quality for what we require in the model railway world is indistinguishable from the Saturn 2 8k which is still available and is quite a bit cheaper and is a brilliant printer. But for what this printer offers, especially if you can use the WIFI and are sick of levelling the print bed then yes, I'd be considering one if in the market for either an upgrade or my first printer.

 

 

Edited June 5 by monkeysarefun

[njee20]

Great review, thank you. I still can't decide between a 4 and an Ultra, the incremental cost on the Ultra is small, and I wholly agree that the price is exceptional. Even as recently as the OG Saturn they were not that far off double.

[monkeysarefun]

13 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Great review, thank you. I still can't decide between a 4 and an Ultra, the incremental cost on the Ultra is small, and I wholly agree that the price is exceptional. Even as recently as the OG Saturn they were not that far off double.

 

 

 

Does the 4 have the tilting  vat? If so and you don't need the WIFI then that'd still  be a brilliant printer  if you don't want to commit to the Ultra. 

 

Elegoo have muddied the waters with their  pricing because the Ultra 3 is a great printer and has WIFI but the pricing of the 4 means that it'll get overlooked.

 

Basically if I wanted to spend minimal money for great prints, the Saturn 2 is still there too, if I want  fancy features there is the 4 and 4 Ultra - I think the 3 and 3 Ultra are orphans now. 

Edited June 5 by monkeysarefun

[njee20]

I've got a Saturn 2, and agree it's a great printer. The plan is to keep the 2, and consolidate all the other printers! No tilting vat on the 4. Not fussed by the wifi, I'll be in the garage to add resin etc anyway, but I imagine I'd use it if it was there. Your post is swaying me toward the Ultra!