Pikey Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Last week my layout randomly shut itself down and refused to start up again. My layout is DCC with an ESU ECoS controller and Megapoints servo-operated points. Most point frogs are switched by corresponding relay boards, but for various reasons I also have 2 Tam Valley hex frog juicers which have worked fine (I presume) for 3-4 years, but last week one of them seems to have suffered total failure, which is causing a short circuit if I try and plug it back in. I can see two of the resistors have not completely melted but certainly have got very hot, on output 4. There are signs of this on outputs 2 and 3 as well, but 4 looks the worst. 1 5 and 6 appear as new. Pics below: I bought it from CoastalDCC in 2020. After emailing them, I've received a pretty unsatisfactory reply saying 'an actual short circuit on one of the outputs can take the unit out', which surprises me as there's nothing on their website or the Tam Valley website about this. Also, if there is ever a real short circuit, my ECoS shuts the power off immediately, so I cant see how this is possible - and in any case I was running a single train on a part of the layout not affected by this frog juicer when the failure happened. Has anyone else ever had one of these fail? Was it repairable / can they be repaired? And would I send it back to CoastalDCC for repair (or rather, for them to send it to Tam Valley for repair)? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 It can be mended but may well cost more than a new one 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 7 hours ago, Pikey said: I bought it from CoastalDCC in 2020. After emailing them, I've received a pretty unsatisfactory reply saying 'an actual short circuit on one of the outputs can take the unit out', which surprises me as there's nothing on their website or the Tam Valley website about this. Also, if there is ever a real short circuit, my ECoS shuts the power off immediately, so I cant see how this is possible... It doesn't help the case, but the explanation is simple. The DCC system protects against a short on the rails and up to the decoder input, by detection of a large 'instant' rise in current draw. Failing electronics usually don't generate this effect, and the DCC system has necessarily to tolerate current draw variation up to its rated output. 7 hours ago, kev said: It can be mended but may well cost more than a new one Honesty time, I have been very pleasantly suprised at the robustness of DCC decoders and the like: these are low cost consumer electronics. The occasional failure has to be accepted in my opinion. Not long had a Zimo MX 618 go 'phut' pretty spectacularly, my first ever failure from a Zimo decoder after over 15 years using their product. And the DCC system didn't trip out as the magic blue smoke escaped and the loco slid to a halt, while everything else running kept going. As suggested by Kev return to manufacturer for repair is almost certainly uneconomic... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 Low cost? This isn't a DCC decoder - these boards cost nearly £80... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEdwardII Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 13 minutes ago, Pikey said: these boards cost nearly £80... Makes me feel a lot happier that I use point motors with a built in switch to handle the frog polarity... Yours, Mike. 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 I have used Cobalts on my exhibition layout, they're excellent. But that layout has 4 sets of points - my home layout has over 40, and some of them require more than two associated switches, which is one of the reasons why I didnt use them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted April 18 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 18 I have had 5 Tam Valley hex frog boards in use for several years. They are all still working fine luckily. I hope you can figure out what caused your issue. I did not get them from coastal DCC as I am in Canada so could get them closer but I have sourced lots of other things from them and I find Kevin to be very knowledgable and very helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 I use Tam Valley Mono juicers. Yes my layout only has 5 switches (points/turnouts) so altogether 5 mono juicers cost more than one Hex, but they are spread out around the layout (17' x 8') and I was conscious of the advice to keep the wiring as short as possible. I have had one juicer fail in about 8 years, at least it was easy to replace, I keep a spare in hand 'just in case'. I second any recomendations for Kev at Coastal DCC, very helpful & quick service. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted April 19 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 19 I have various types of Tam Valley frog juicers on numerous layouts for many years and no failures so far. It could be that these rarely fall hence not much info out there. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 Looking at the Tam Valley website, it says they can repair most damage to boards that are out of warranty for $25. Given that it will fit in a Large Letter sized jiffy bag, and postage to the USA is only a few pounds, I think I'll post it directly back to them for, hopefully, a repair which will be much cheaper than buying a new one 🙂 I have two spare Gaugemaster DCC80 'Autofrogs', and a couple of spare relays on the Megapoints system, so with a few hours of wiring buggeration I can get 4 of the 6 frogs powered by this juicer back up and running in the meantime. Avoiding such buggeration was one of the reasons I bought the frog juicers in the first place, but never mind. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Contact Tam Valley directly to check before sending. That's a North American applicable price would be my first thought. (Been there many times in my career, such service only available outside the USA/Canada via the appointed Agent in Europe is typical.) If you get the go ahead, it may be necessary to enclose proof of purchase in the UK to travel home with it, to avoid VAT on the 'imported' repaired piece. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 Its less than £135 so I wouldn't be charged anything as far as I know, although maybe that only applies to EU purchases (?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Don't know, not up to speed on this any more. My last time purchasing a s/h model railway item from the USA for $30 resulted in a total demand for £120 on arrival in the UK. I walked away, needless to say. Be cautious is all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 8 hours ago, Pikey said: Its less than £135 so I wouldn't be charged anything as far as I know, although maybe that only applies to EU purchases (?) Like 34C says, check first, especially as it's an item you've already bought being sent. I vaguely recall on here some years ago an issue someone had returning a loco to the USA for attention, and getting charged VAT on it's purchase value again when it was returned to the UK. Also a story of Bachmann US outline models not being covered by 'free' warranty repairs when bought outside the USA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted 4 hours ago Author Share Posted 4 hours ago Postage cost £4.20 so I've ~nothing to lose by sending it back to Tam Valley. I've sent them an email letting them know and asking for it to be assessed and a quote for repair and return postage. Fingers crossed... 🙂 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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