Aisgill Accident 1913

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, Morello Cherry said:

 

I seem to recall a couple of accidents where there were run away engines after drivers fell off their engines.

 

TBH the expectation seems to have been that if the driver died/was injured during the journey the fireman would takeover.

 

There is one story i read of a driver being decapitated by a bridge and the fireman taking over to complete the journey.

 

I'm pretty sure I read one accident report where a driver 'went missing' over the side of an engine when in motion and the fireman didn't notice for a while. (I have in my mind it was in Ireland).

 

I suspect it happened more often than we imagine but would probably only show up as the sort of thing a fireman would have been commended for rather than the sort thing that would induce a visit from a Major.

 

The fireman would be expected to drive the train to the next open signal box, at reduced speed if he is not passed for driving but even inexperienced men would have spent time driving under the tuition of their drivers, where he would report the incident.  The priority would be to stop traffic and search the line at reduced speed for a man who may be injured and could be saved.  The next stage depends on the location, so let's assume we are out in the country somewhere.  The now driverless train must be provided with a driver, or, if the fireman is passed and signs the road, a new fireman.  Is there a goods that can be put in a siding or a loop and the crew commandeered to take the train on?  If not, a crew must be sent out to the location to relieve the fireman with a fresh driver or provide him with a fireman if he is qualified to drive the train.  Exingencies of the service prioritise such a move, which might be on a train passing in that direction or, in extreme cases, by taxi.  If it's a passenger train, there may be crew travelling home on the cushions that would be available, or even off-duty men volunteering their services.

 

Once the initial report of the incident is made, Control will be informed, and it is they who will make whatever arrangements are necessary to replace the missing driver with a man who is passed for the job and has the requisite route knowledge.  In steam days traction knowledge was not an issue, as all steam locos were similar enough to each other to enable any driver to take any of them on at any time without prior notice (which sometimes didn't work out as well as everybody thought it should), but diesel and electric traction is more complex and a man who signs the traction as well as the route is needed or a traction pilot found.   

 

In the case of MAS signalling, the train will be driven to the next signal, where there will be a telephone to the panel signal box.  At that point the procedure becomes very similar to the above, but instructions are relayed by telephone.      

 

One of Prof. Tuplin's novellas about the Great Central has a tale in which a driver leaves the footplate of a loco on an up winter evening express from Leicester to climb around the tender with the intention of perving on a young couple who had installed themselves in the leading compartment of the train and were clearly going to play 'beast with two backs'.  He instructs the young fireman to leave the controls as he has set them and blow the whistle to attract his attention approaching Rugby, where the train was booked to stop.  It was more than a fireman's job was worth in those days to question your driver, and the fireman carried out the driver's instructions.  Upon blowing the whistle approaching Rugby on time, and finding that no driver returned to the footplate, he shut off steam, put the loco in mid-gear, and braked to a standstill at Rugby.  No sign of the driver, who by now had been missing for some time.

 

Of course, it had to be reported immediately, and another driver found to take the train on to Marylebone.  Plenty of staff around at Rugby and the train proceeded without any delay incurred.  The original driver, what was left of him, was found when the line was searched, only a few yards from where he'd left the cab.  The point Tuplin was making was that GC 4-6-0s could be left to run at certain gear and throttle settings and required little attention from their drivers, or from their fireman beyond putting an occasional round on, but I would point out that a) so could most classes so long as the regulator handle is secured in position, and b) Tuplin is entertaining as a writer of fiction.

 

Nobody knows what happend to the young couple, but one hopes their journey was pleasant...  Tuplin does not comment on whether the fireman was reprimanded or praised for his action; he should of course have reported his driver missing immediately, but had been instructed not to by a man authorised to instruct him and in charge of the locomotive.

 

Edited April 22 by The Johnster

[Morello Cherry]

Is that not this accident - Manors Junction on 7th August 1926 with some embroidery?

[JOHNMCDRAGON]

I think I remember a case like that in the late sixties, maybe early seventies of a driver being killed leaning out trying to spy on a 'courting couple'.

[johnofwessex]

20 hours ago, JOHNMCDRAGON said:

I think I remember a case like that in the late sixties, maybe early seventies of a driver being killed leaning out trying to spy on a 'courting couple'.

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/topic/features/cricklewood-driver/

 

Just before you get to Nostalgia Not Yet

[Legend]

Wow . Learn something everyday . I assumed that drivers went round when train was stopped not when not was in motion . That would have given the ORR something to think about . 

[Morello Cherry]

On 22/04/2024 at 18:49, The Johnster said:

Coming back to the habit of leaving the cab to 'oil around', I would expect drivers to wait for an opportunity to present itself just after a train had passed on the opposite line before venturing out on to the rh side, as there would at least be a few minutes before another one passed.  As this applies to the Ais Gill accident, I read it as the driver going out on to the rh side of the loco approaching Birkett Tunnel, as you wouldn't want to be on the lh side in a tunnel, just after traffic had passed on the adjoining running line, to make his way widdershins around the running plate. 

 

 

The problem is that this isn't what the report says. The report says the opposite:

 

Quote

Driver Caudle gives the  following account of his journey after passing Kirkby Stephen he left the footplate when approaching Birkett Tunnel, on the near side, to oil the left driving auxiliary box, and was on the framing whilst train passed through the tunnel. He then went round the smoke-box on to the off side, oiled the corresponding box, and got back to his place at the "front." Mallastang up distant signal is situated on the near side of the railway about 1,060 yards from the south end of Birkett Tunnel. A good can be obtained of this signal as soon as the cutting at the south end of the tunnel is cleared say for 500 yards. Caudle states that he got the impression, when he was outside the engine, that the distant signal was in the clear position. The wind also was stronger than he had expected to find it. He was consequently a longer time than usual going round the framing, and was outside when the engine passed the distant signal.

 

No one mentions a train passing in the other direction.

 

Caudle's statement clearly says that he went left to right and was on the left hand side in the tunnel.

 

He is on the left hand side of the engine when in the tunnel... with the smoke and the engine working hard at 30mph (if my maths is correct a train going at 30mph takes about 29 seconds to go through 428 yard long tunnel).

 

He moves across the smokebox to the right hand side once outside the tunnel.

 

He is on the off side when passing the signal on the nearside which can be seen after about 500 yards. He is still outside the engine when passing the signal (approx 72 seconds after leaving the tunnel exit)

 

Birkett Tunnel from the south (428 yards)

 

 

Pringle has this to say about the issue. Again, emphasis here is mine.

 

Quote

(c) By the Company's regulations oiling an engine is the duty of the driver and not the fireman. Before the recent improvements in lubrication were adopted, it was necessary for a driver, more than once on a long journey, to feed additional oil on to the bearings. A receptacle is now filled with oil before a journey is commenced, and the lubricant is syphoned, drop by drop, from wicks on to the bearings. Provided that the receptacle is large enough to supply all the oil likely to be syphoned there is no actual necessity for the driver to renew the supply during the journey. But drivers of long service have generally acquired the habit of going round their
engines and prefer to continue the practice even though it may not actually be necessary. It affords the men an opportanity also of observing the movement of the engine, which cannot be seen from the cab. Caudle and Nicholson say that they are in the habit of going round with a feeder once during the journey between Carlisle and Leeds.

The practice must be regarded from two points of view, viz., danger to the men themselves, and loss of security to the train. When the train is travelling steadily, there does not appear to be much risk to an experienced man in thus exposing himself on the framing. The men, in this case, say that they select a portion of the road where it is straight, and there is shelter from the wind. But it cannot be denied that there is some risk in stormy weather of falling from the engine, also on all occasions of coming into contact with outside objects. The attitude of the Board of Trade has been that the practice is inadvisable on account of this, personal risk. A notice (vide Appendix II.) has been issued by the Company warning the men that accidents have occurred, and cautioning them against leaving the footplate unnecessarily when the engine is in motion. The enginemen were aware of this notice, and state that they did not consider the practice to be dangerous.

The second aspect is important from the poirit of pubiic safety. A man is certainly at a disadvantage for observing signals, when he is engaged outside an engine in securing his footing and using a feeder. But the men, again, reply that there would not ordinarily be any danger to public safety, because the work only occupies the short period of two or three minutes, and that they are careful to choose a section of line between block posts, where, from their knowledge of the road, there will be no signals to observe. Provided their judgment can always be relied upon in this respect, the danger of non-observance of' signals should be srnall. Moreover, firemen are also fully competent to observe signals, if required to do so, during the temporary absence of the driver from the footplate. If a driver chooses to go round the framing, there should be a distinct obligation upon him, in my opinion, to arrange with his mate that the latter shall be at liberty from his own work to devote hlniself to the more important work of observation.

On this particular occasion it appears that Caudle was away from the " front " longer than he had calculated to be, and consequently passed the distant signal before he had returned to his proper position. His action was therefore ill-judged, and possibly the reason why the distant signal was not properly observed, or at all events obeyed. But there was no necessity for Caudle to go round at the time he did, and he did not take the precaution to see that the fireman, \rho was strange to him, was disengaged, nor did he give him any instructions.

 

@Jim Martin - re crew falling off (The notice that Pringle mentions above from the appendix II in the report (p55))

 

Quote

NOTICE TO DRIVERS ARD FIREMEN.

PRECAUTIONS TO BE TAKEN TO PREVENT INJURY.

Accidents have occurred to drivers and firemen through their failure to take proper precautions when they have gone out on to the engine framing, or on to the top of the tender while the engine was moving.

Drivers and firemen are hereby cautioned against leaving the footplate unnecessarily when the engine is in motion.

Rule 24A of the Company's Rule Book warns all servants of the Company not to expose themselves to danger, and drivers and firemen are hereby requested to take such precautions  at all times as will ensure them from risk of injury.

BY ORDER.

General Superintendent's Office,
Derby May 1st, 1911.

 

All this discussion about whether or not it is safe or not, or why can't we do what we've always done because I've never had an accident so it is fine sounds eerily familiar. I am just shocked to see that no one has accused Major Pringle of being a namby pamby woke snowflake health and safety killjoy.

Edited April 23 by Morello Cherry

[kevinlms]

All this makes the discussion on the Indicator Shelters elsewhere, look like luxury and a dream job!

[Compound2632]

A couple of pictures of Johnson 4-4-0s have been posted, and very elegant they look. But at the time of the accident, 446 was a very different-looking engine, having been rebuilt with the larger-diameter H boiler in December 1905. Here's 444 rebuilt in the same way, along with another unidentified H-boiler rebuild, at Armathwaite on 3 August 1911:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue image of Midland Railway Study Centre item 88-1996-71_4, Derby official photo DY9599.]

 

It was rebuilt as a 483 Class superheated 4-4-0 (the precursor of the LMS standard 2P) in March 1921. 

[roythebus1]

On 22/04/2024 at 23:45, JOHNMCDRAGON said:

I think I remember a case like that in the late sixties, maybe early seventies of a driver being killed leaning out trying to spy on a 'courting couple'.

That may have been the driver on  local service out of Liverpool Street, went outside of his cab to see the couple in the leading compartment. EMU stock.

[roythebus1]

As a volunteer guard on the IWSR in the 1980s, we had a group of the scouts on the train, all dressed in grey uniform jackets. Going along I looked out as per my duty and saw what appeared to be someone in a grey jacket and cap swinging round between the first coach and the loco, a Terrier. I pulled the handle to stop the train, then walked forward to meet the driver. Told him what I'd seen and he laughed. What I'd seen was his fireman swinging round the footplate to give the Westinghouse pump some impact maintenance to get it working,.