HST at Bradford Interchange 19th/20th March 1977 - HELP REQUIRED

[Commoner]

On the weekend of 19th/20th March 1977 an exhibition was held to celebrate the opening of Bradford Transport Interchange. A WR HST set was stabled at Bradford Exchange as part of the public relations exercise. I am trying to establish the exact trailer formation of the set concerned which was formed with power cars W43042/43.

 

Did anybody on RMWeb attend and record the information required. On a related note I also require details of any WR sets/formations recorded on commissioning or delivery runs during 1976/77 on the LMR/ER/WR. Sets were extensively trialled between Derby and Newcastle before being cleared for delivery.

 

I am willing to negotiate token payments for information supplied and if this is required please PM me.

 

Trying not to sound desperate but any help would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Commoner

[jamie92208]

Members might be interested in the following photos of these early HST workings. I have scanned them and am sending decent copies to the original poster but here they are.

 

The first production HST set 253001 going through Castleford in early 1976 on it's main line test run from Derby to Newcastle.

 

Here it goes North towards York. It had come up the Midland Main Line from Derby and needed to get to the ECML for High Speed testing. It was still able to travel the direct route via Oakenshaw and Goose Hill in those days.

 

Here is set 253021 at Bradford Interchange on display for the opening of the new Interchange station.

 

Here 021 is climbing the bank through Laisterdyke near Hammerton Street DMU depot.

My friend who was one of the HST development team remarked that it was a long time since anything had gone up the bank that fast.

 

 

The sound from the screaming Valenta's was great to hear as the rear power car passed.

Hope these are of interest.

 

 

Jamie

Edited August 9, 2022 by jamie92208

[Commoner]

Great photographs Jamie, thankyou for taking the time to scan and post them.

 

Commoner

[keefer]

OT for the thread, but very interesting re: cl.253 sets with the 2 catering vehicles, i.e. TRUK/TRSB

the way they're formed makes more sense too, in that the TRUK is next to 1st class, natch, but the TRSB is 'inside' the 2nd class part of the train, meaning most buffet customers were only 2 coaches at most from the buffet

of course, later on, these 'twins' would be ECML only with the catering cars together, meaning you potentially had quite a journey from the end TS/TGS to the buffet and back, trying not to spill your 'maxpax'!

[Geoff Endacott]

From memory when the HSTs first came out you could work out all of the individual trailer numbers from the set number.

 

The power cars W43042 and W43043 were formed in set 253 021. (Where S is the set number, the last digits of the power cars were 2S and 2S+1.)

 

The last digits of the seconds were 3S, 3S+1 and 3S+2. That gives W42063, W42064 and W42065.

 

First class trailers would have been 2S and 2S+1, so were W41042 and W41043.

 

Catering vehicles were harder, but probably included W40021.

 

I will have to look up my records for more detailed information.

 

Geoff Endacott

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

I remember seeing a WR HST set at Rotherham Masborough on whats called the old road which bypassed Sheffield in the late 70s and from memory the set was 253017.

 

Would this have been part of the same trial?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[jamie92208]

The HST at Masboro would almost certainly be on test after final asssmbly at Derby. The route was the original Midland Main line to Altofts then to York and finally ECML to newcastle and back. they needed the strecth north of York for the High speed testing.

 

Jamie

[Commoner]

From memory when the HSTs first came out you could work out all of the individual trailer numbers from the set number.

 

The power cars W43042 and W43043 were formed in set 253 021. (Where S is the set number, the last digits of the power cars were 2S and 2S+1.)

 

The last digits of the seconds were 3S, 3S+1 and 3S+2. That gives W42063, W42064 and W42065.

 

First class trailers would have been 2S and 2S+1, so were W41042 and W41043.

 

Catering vehicles were harder, but probably included W40021.

 

I will have to look up my records for more detailed information.

 

Geoff Endacott

 

From papers I have seen in the National Archive the Bradford set was due to be a unit released from commissioning at Derby. However, as the event approached it became apparent that this set required further trials. Consequently the WR was asked to release an operational set which they were not best pleased about, given that the set was required at Bradford from 09.00 Saturday to 17.00 Sunday. What actually happened is inconclusive from those papers.

 

Power cars W43042/43 were probably delivered in early March, having been stranded at Crewe from late January to late February 1977 due to an industrial dispute. My first recording of set 253 021 in traffic is early April 1977, operating as a single TRSB set, although in late March the power cars were used in other units. I don't think the trailer vehicles of 253 021 hasd been formed up by the date of the Bradford event; I may be wrong. I suspect that W43042/43 were tagged on to either end of an operational set as they were the cleanest/newest available to "show off" the new product to the general public. Again, I could be completely wrong, and that's why I hoped somebody might have recorded the formation in detail. Interestingly the TRUK in the set is reversed with the kitchen section next to the first class vehicles, and from Jamie's photos and others published in Modern Railways the bogie springs are still yellow, suggesting it may have been ex-works. So the plot thickens!

 

Geoff did you by any chance record HST formations in traffic on the WR. You mentioned looking up your records for more information.

 

Thanks for your information to date.

[Geoff Endacott]

If there was a TRUK in the set the trailers weren't from 253 021. The original plan was to have two catering vehicles per set, but this was soon changed. Production of TRUKs stopped at W40520 (for set 253 020). When 253 021 was eventually formed it would have had an extra TS.

 

I have some records of early formations (somewhere).

 

If this was a complete set of trailers from an operational set all I need is one of the numbers to work out what the other seven should have been.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Commoner]

If there was a TRUK in the set the trailers weren't from 253 021. The original plan was to have two catering vehicles per set, but this was soon changed. Production of TRUKs stopped at W40520 (for set 253 020). When 253 021 was eventually formed it would have had an extra TS.

 

I have some records of early formations (somewhere).

 

If this was a complete set of trailers from an operational set all I need is one of the numbers to work out what the other seven should have been.

 

Geoff Endacott

 

Yes that's correct Geoff, however, in the early days the formations took some time to settle. For instance some sets ran as single TRSB sets until their TRUKs were delivered, usually with a replacement TS from a set that had yet to be formed. Still if one vehicle can be identified and it comes from an operational set the remaining vehicles would be easier to identify from the numeric formula you gave above. Interestingly I have had a look back at my notes which show that from a day's observation on 19.03.77, St Philips Marsh based sets 253 003/5/9/13 were NOT noted in traffic. W43042/43 were allocated to SPM, so perhaps it is one of the aforementioned.

 

Thanks

 

Commoner

[Crossfell5]

Been checking the Rail Observers' for that time period - the only notes were just the set No 253021 i'm afraid.

 

Initially looked at 1976 by mistake and found a few Test train details from Derby to Morpeth etc. I'll copy them down and post if you haven't got the info already.

 

In the meantime found a cracking picture here http://www.neil-gibson.fotopic.net/p65816820.html

 

Nick

[Commoner]

Been checking the Rail Observers' for that time period - the only notes were just the set No 253021 i'm afraid.

 

Initially looked at 1976 by mistake and found a few Test train details from Derby to Morpeth etc. I'll copy them down and post if you haven't got the info already.

 

In the meantime found a cracking picture here http://www.neil-gibson.fotopic.net/p65816820.html

 

Nick

 

Indeed a cracking photo of 252 001.

 

Thanks for looking up the ROs for me; I have the details from 1976 ROs concerning the Derby-Morpeth test runs, but thanks for the offer of photocopying and taking the time to contribute.

 

Commoner

[Kennibunkport]

Hi,

 

I'm afraid I'm can't help with the formation but you may find these pictures of the event interesting.

 

K

[Commoner]

Great photos, thanks for taking the time to scan and upload them. I am hopeful the formation will come to light at some stage.

 

Commoner

[SGJ]

Was there a reason specifically why a western region set was used, were the eastern ones still being made ?

SGJ

[Geoff Endacott]

Was there a reason specifically why a western region set was used, were the eastern ones still being made ?

SGJ

 

Yes - the WR ones were built first.

 

Geoff Endacott

[jamie92208]

I can't remember the exact dates but I seem to remember my friend from the development team saying that the train had been brought up specially from the Western region for the ceremony at the Interchange. As far as I know the Eastern sets were not in production at that time.

 

Jamie