GEC (AEI) Cross-arm Pantograph - photo's, drawings etc.

[ClikC]

Bit of a tall order this one...

 

I need a GEC (AEI) Cross-arm pan for my class 87 project, and with nothing available commercially, a scratch build seams inevitable. So I was wondering if any RMWebber's could aide me in my search for information.

 

Alas roof shots of 86's and 87's are comparatively rare. So if anyone anyone can point me in the direction of some, or perhaps even know of any published drawings and dimensions I'd be greatly appreciative.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[Michael Edge]

If you get hold of this information you could pass it on to me, we would like to produce a kit for thsi pantograph.

Michael Edge

Judith Edge kits

[ClikC]

If you get hold of this information you could pass it on to me, we would like to produce a kit for thsi pantograph.

Michael Edge

Judith Edge kits

 

Will do Michael, a kit will be much appreciated as I think I'm going to want quite a few of these, and I don't fancy scratch building the lot.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[halfwit]

I'm not sure if these are any use to you but 'British Rail Main Line Electric Locos' by Marsden and Fenn (OPC) has a drawing of the pantograph and roof although its probably not detailed enough for you.

[halfwit]

And see also 'BR Electric Locos In 4mm Scale' (Model Railway Constructor Planbook 3) for a more detailed sketch.

[great central]

Gordon H on here has built cross-arms in the past, he may be your best bet.

[Gordon H]

Gordon H on here has built cross-arms in the past, he may be your best bet.

My article on the subject appeared in 'Model Railways' in (I think) Feb 1984.

However, I didn't have any proper drawings or dimensions to go from, everything was either estimated or extrapolated from the few pictures available. It was only on a later open day at Crewe Electric depot that I got the opportunity to take a few measurements - but I had moved on to Brecknell-Willis types by then.

The basic principle of construction still holds good though.

[ClikC]

I'm not sure if these are any use to you but 'British Rail Main Line Electric Locos' by Marsden and Fenn (OPC) has a drawing of the pantograph and roof although its probably not detailed enough for you.

And see also 'BR Electric Locos In 4mm Scale' (Model Railway Constructor Planbook 3) for a more detailed sketch.

 

Gordon H on here has built cross-arms in the past, he may be your best bet.

My article on the subject appeared in 'Model Railways' in (I think) Feb 1984.

However, I didn't have any proper drawings or dimensions to go from, everything was either estimated or extrapolated from the few pictures available. It was only on a later open day at Crewe Electric depot that I got the opportunity to take a few measurements - but I had moved on to Brecknell-Willis types by then.

The basic principle of construction still holds good though.

 

Thanks for the replies gents, I'll be sure to look out for the books!

 

Gordon, any chance of a few photo's of the pan you made? They'd be greatly appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[Dagworth]

I've also scratchbuilt a couple of Cross Arm pans, I'll try to get some pics up in the next day or so. Mine were built from the drawings in "Electric locos in 4mm" as mentioned above.

 

Andi

[Galtee More]

And see also 'BR Electric Locos In 4mm Scale' (Model Railway Constructor Planbook 3) for a more detailed sketch.

 

 

Book Law Publications of Nottingham still have remaindered copies available for about a fiver ! Their website has an enquiry form, plus full contact details, including e-mail, telephone and postal address.

 

For some time I'd thought I should have one or two cross-arm pans, but I'd never done anything.about it - Another of those 'Roundtuit' things. The OP's original enquiry, however, prodded me into action. I looked at PDH Drawing Services' website and saw that they did a drawing for the Class 87, Drawing No LE-014, Class 87 Bo-Bo. I enquired of David Hulls of PDH if his drawing features the cross-arm papantograph. In his very prompt reply, David said that he would amend the drawing top include the cross-arm pan and would also priduce an additional, larger scale, drawimg of just the pantograph, proably by sometime next week - such service ! I cannot yet vouch for PDH's drawings, but they certainly sound promising ..... and any information is better that none.

I've also heard from a third party, that Brian of Shawplan has mentioned that he might consider doing a kit for them, probably using brass laminations etched to size. Whether there's any truth in this, I don't know, but it would certainly help the case if all those interested made their requirements known to Brian and, similarly to PDH.

 

Ian

[ClikC]

I've also scratchbuilt a couple of Cross Arm pans, I'll try to get some pics up in the next day or so. Mine were built from the drawings in "Electric locos in 4mm" as mentioned above.

 

Andi

 

Thanks Andi, that'll be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

Book Law Publications of Nottingham still have remaindered copies available for about a fiver ! Their website has an enquiry form, plus full contact details, including e-mail, telephone and postal address.

 

For some time I'd thought I should have one or two cross-arm pans, but I'd never done anything.about it - Another of those 'Roundtuit' things. The OP's original enquiry, however, prodded me into action. I looked at PDH Drawing Services' website and saw that they did a drawing for the Class 87, Drawing No LE-014, Class 87 Bo-Bo. I enquired of David Hulls of PDH if his drawing features the cross-arm papantograph. In his very prompt reply, David said that he would amend the drawing top include the cross-arm pan and would also priduce an additional, larger scale, drawimg of just the pantograph, proably by sometime next week - such service ! I cannot yet vouch for PDH's drawings, but they certainly sound promising ..... and any information is better that none.

 

I've also heard from a third party, that Brian of Shawplan has mentioned that he might consider doing a kit for them, probably using brass laminations etched to size. Whether there's any truth in this, I don't know, but it would certainly help the case if all those interested made their requirements known to Brian and, similarly to PDH.

 

Ian

 

Hi Ian, thanks for the tip off, I'll be sure to pick one up.

 

Another string to the bow is always welcome, I'll be in contact with David Hulls later this week about the drawings mentioned.

 

I'll be seeing Brian at StormEx this weekend, I'll take my 87 along and we can discuss it's merits.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[Dagworth]

 

I'll be seeing Brian at StormEx this weekend, I'll take my 87 along and we can discuss it's merits.

 

Regards

 

Matt

 

If I can find an easy way of getting from 'nam to StormEx I hope to be there too. I've had some vague discussions with Brian about the pans, and also know that JSW has been having some thoughts.

 

Andi

[ClikC]

If I can find an easy way of getting from 'nam to StormEx I hope to be there too. I've had some vague discussions with Brian about the pans, and also know that JSW has been having some thoughts.

 

Andi

 

I hope to see you there Andi! The Brecknell Willis is out of my time line, but a few Faiveley AMBR pans would certainly find a home, and the more finescale the better.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[keefer]

a photo of the cross-arm and S-F types here:

 

http://www.old-dalby.com/HSCCP.htm (scroll down to 'dynamic tests')

 

although these have been modified for the tests, they're quite good close shots of the frames

[Gordon H]

Gordon, any chance of a few photo's of the pan you made? They'd be greatly appreciated.

I don't have any close-ups to hand, but you can see some examples in use on another thread:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/11355-25kv-overhead-wires/page__st__125 (about 1/3 of the way down the page)

[Gordon H]

Just unearthed one of my Lima 87's fitted with a cross-arm pan for a few photos.

Must be well over ten years since it last saw active service under a wire, so it's all a bit grubby at the moment having had no maintenance in that time.

Unfortunately, the elastic springs have perished, but otherwise it would still be serviceable with a bit of attention.

The only proprietary parts used were the head (Lima, came with the loco) and the insulators (Sommerfeldt).

One of the most awkward aspects of the construction, which a kit version would also need to overcome, is that the lower arms feature a square tapered cross-section. Mine were hand-filed, having first drilled a 0.5mm hole at the 'thin' end for the upper arm pivot.

I believe this was one of six pans assembled as a batch, once the necessary assembly jigs were constructed.

 

 

[ClikC]

Just unearthed one of my Lime 87's fitted with a cross-arm pan for a few photos.

Must be well over ten years since it last saw active service under a wire, so it's all a bit grubby at the moment having had no maintenance in that time.

Unfortunately, the elastic springs have perished, but otherwise it would still be serviceable with a bit of attention.

The only proprietary parts used were the head (Lima, came with the loco) and the insulators (Sommerfeldt).

One of the most awkward aspects of the construction, which a kit version would also need to overcome, is that the lower arms feature a square tapered cross-section. Mine were hand-filed, having first drilled a 0.5mm hole at the 'thin' end for the upper arm pivot.

I believe this was one of six pans assembled as a batch, once the necessary assembly jigs were constructed.

 

 

 

Thats excellent Gordon.

 

For the arms I was considering either making a filing/milling jig, or better still making two fold up etches. The etches would certainly have all the bolt and nut detail, and I could possibly hide a length of phosphor bronze wire to perhaps provide the spring needed for the pan.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[dai]

Hi everyone

 

I've come across this thread and I also contemplated scratch building one of these AEI cross-arm pantographs for an O gauge class 87 which I have back dated to the late 1970s. I must admit that I chickened out on building one myself and chose a Faiveley pantograph kit which was fitted to 87 009 City of Birmingham from 1978 to 1984.

 

regards

 

Evan

[Hawk]

Hi everyone

 

I've come across this thread and I also contemplated scratch building one of these AEI cross-arm pantographs for an O gauge class 87 which I have back dated to the late 1970s. I must admit that I chickened out on building one myself and chose a Faiveley pantograph kit which was fitted to 87 009 City of Birmingham from 1978 to 1984.

 

regards

 

Evan

 

Scratchbuilding pantographs is not just any piece of cake! I am in the process of building a finescale pantograph in 0-scale, and it have turned out to be quite a challenge. I consider my first try a "beta" version, when I manage to Iron out the bugs I think I will be able to make pretty good looking and decently operating pantographs. Althoug rather delicate.

 

Here is the beta version:

 

 

 

Would love to hear from anyone struggeling along the same lines!

 

Regards, Haavard H

[Dagworth]

 

 

That's beautiful!

 

Andi

[Pugsley]

Yes, that is very impressive B) B) B) B)

[ClikC]

That is very nice indeed!

[Galtee More]

PDH Drawing Services have just advised that they have now completed the drawings of the AEI/GEC cross-arm pan. I understand that there is one drawing of the Class 87, with cross-arm pan, and a larger scale drawing of the pan itself. Both drawings cost £10.00 inc p&p and are available from:

PDH Drawing Services

67 Coombe Rise

OADBY

Leicester

LE2 5TU

 

 

Usual disclaimers apply !

 

Ian

 

 

[Esmedune]

Just found this, and it is great to gave the official name for this type. I need these for some Class 86s. Did anyone ever make any? Especially in 4mm?  I have seen fixed white metal moulded ones, but I would love ones that could be raised and lowered.

[Darius43]

 

Just found this, and it is great to gave the official name for this type. I need these for some Class 86s. Did anyone ever make any? Especially in 4mm?  I have seen fixed white metal moulded ones, but I would love ones that could be raised and lowered.

 

Judith Edge Kits make one.

 

Cheers

 

Darius