Weekday Cross Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I wonder if Bob Jones still does the Fencehouses point chairplate etches? I have used those in the past to good effect. The Easiline etches were more or less the same width as the sleepers, which did not look quite right somehow. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 As noted by 2mm Dabbler, I've used the Versaline etched chair plates on the PCB sleepers (but only the standard single chair plates); where a longer plate has been needed, I've used a piece of 0.010" brass strip cut to length. I've got some of the Versaline cosmetic chairs, but as yet I'm undecided on whether to use them or not (back to the KISS/80% solution principles) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted February 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2011 Years ago I saw some anti-slip tape for use on boat decks. Although bright white I thought it might have some use representing ballast. Perhaps offcuts could be of use here as it would avoid the use of glue and loose ballast. Possibly too coarse for this scale though. Staying with the KISS principal (afraid I can't agree on the music Steve ), on Highbury I stuck a thin layer of ballast to paper with PVA then cut it into strips which I used around the moving bits of the point so as to minimise the chances of completely gumming up all the trackwork I had spent so much time on. I also brushed bits of vasaline around the ends of the blades to keep the glue out - it washes off easily with white spirit. I must say that sloshing all that glue and gunge around at ballasting time was far and away the most nerve racking episode in layout building. It was such a relief when it all worked again afterwards without too much cleaning up Jerry 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2011 I've still got some of the original chairplates - not much use if I cannot get any more. I certainly believe that all PCB track looks fine. its when you start mixing it that you may notice i.e at some point if you change from molded chairs to blobs of solder it may stand out. Of couse it depends on the viewing distance and the viewers eyesight. Jerry idea of using a normal sleeper has a lot of merit. You could add some thin plastic rod decorative stretchers. I have thought that if you cut the ends off and fixed them in place with a small gap either side whether you would notice the movement. The main difficulty is the bit under the rails helps to keep the blades down. Don 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted February 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2011 Interesting debate this - I am sitting on the side of the fence with the use of Easitrac plain track and PCB turnouts - I probably won't bother trying to put chairs, but will clean up the solder some more prior to painting and painting. As for the tiebar, I have just used a single PCB sleeper...I am not so worried about seeing that visually I attach a photo of my last turnout using Code 40, PCB and some easitrac. Apologies (as always) for my shocking soldering. I did like to be able to use continuous lengths of rail in the plain track which became the turnout rather than making the turnout as a stand a lone unit...if that makes sense 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I wonder if Bob Jones still does the Fencehouses point chairplate etches? I have used those in the past to good effect. The Easiline etches were more or less the same width as the sleepers, which did not look quite right somehow. Yes - Bob still sells these, and indeed has used them on his 'Fence Houses' layout for all the pointwork. IIRC, the Easiline system has been discontinued by the 2mm shop, but the rights have reverted back to the designer, Andrew Cox. It may be worth contacting him to see if he has any available (or plans to re-run the etches). The Versaline etched chairplates in the 2mm shop are also useful as general chairplates (ie. without the cosmetic chair castings). The beauty of these is that they can be pre-positioned on the sleepers using the jigs from the shop, although I have found that a bit of tweaking is needed in one or two places. Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 A few days ago I alluded to an 'off-topic' project I was working on this week; this was a necessary diversion as 1) it is due for tomorrow, and 2) I wanted to wait for a consensus on the point construction and tie-bar discussions. It is obvious that there are as many variations as there are railway modellers ( ), but it looks like I'll keep on experimenting until I find a style/technique that I'm comfortable with - well this layout was all bout learning new skills... Anyway, the diversion... ... late last year I observed that a certain wagon was short of a load, and was then (politely) told "...well you fill it then!" So this is what I found... There's no specific prototype identified on, but it appears to be reasonable representative of the stationary/static steam engines of around the turn of the century. ... but not this... I chose to model the engine in 'as-new' condition (just being delivered in around 1910), and to make it in it's 'travelling' configuration, ie the chimney dismantled and laid along the boiler. The cut off chimney was replaced with a piece of brass tube with wire soldered around on end to represent the flare. There are still a few little bits to finish before tomorrow; the wooden 'thingy' that goes around the horses' rear end (what do I know about equestrian terms ) needs to be bent down to the level of the wagon floor, and the front wheel unit can't be glued to the body until this is done. The chimney, and now I look at it, quite a few areas of the matt black..., need a second coat or touch up, but overall I'm actually quite happy with the attempt. Certainly these close-up are very cruel, but when seen from a distance (especially if the wagon and it's load are parked behind a tree!), it looks quite respectable . This is the first paint-job I've done in about 25 years and although I had trouble with the enamel paints (new tins!) not drying, and the 'slightly' older acrylics being less easy to work, I reckon with some more practice I'll get the hang of this artistic lark... Hopefully I'll have some snaps tomorrow of this wagon load being used at Newbury, and dispel the myth that wagons only carry jelly babies 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 11, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2011 Ohh very shinny. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Steve - Nice work! Sorry that, due to other commitments, I'm not going to make Newburey after all . Some other time! Regs Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 11, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2011 Good to see its still steam Don 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I think the "wooden 'thingy' that goes around the horses' rear end" may be the "breeching", in which case it will be made of leather and will be part of the harness and won't need to match the height of the wagon floor. Some examples can be seen on WIkipedia at http://en.wikipedia....reeching_(tack) Interesting looking model - I'm building the more normal traction engine at the moment (moves under steam power rather than horse power, but looks similar). David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted February 12, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2011 Nicely done Steve - I assume that it was WE Mark who threw down the gauntlet and that the model will be guesting on WE today at Newbury? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 I think the "wooden 'thingy' that goes around the horses' rear end" may be the "breeching", in which case it will be made of leather and will be part of the harness and won't need to match the height of the wagon floor. Some examples can be seen on WIkipedia at http://en.wikipedia....reeching_(tack) Interesting looking model - I'm building the more normal traction engine at the moment (moves under steam power rather than horse power, but looks similar). David David, thanks for the educational insight into the 'horses rear end' - I can now seem really intelligent (?) when talking to my daughter Nicely done Steve - I assume that it was WE Mark who threw down the gauntlet and that the model will be guesting on WE today at Newbury? Yes, well guessed Pete , and here is the little engine on it's new home, firstly as the wagon load, and then in overall context... It still needs to have tie-downs fitted, and either a dusting of snow, or a tarpaulin cover, and maybe a cameo to 'receive' it, but that will be down to Mark to decide (it is his train-set, so his rules apply). 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 12, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2011 Needs a jelly baby as a driver. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Needs a jelly baby as a driver. I'll have you know that NO jelly babies were harmed at all today! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 12, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2011 I'll have you know that NO jelly babies were harmed at all today! Strange I found one under Avonwick after I packed up. It didn't look happy. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted February 12, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2011 Strange I found one under Avonwick after I packed up. It didn't look happy. ...that might explain why Farmer Giles was found lying down as you noted on your blog Kris 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 However, I've no records of Harris' ever having their own 4-wheel box vans - all my information points towards leased GW Siphons (4 wheeled Siphon D and 40' bogie Siphon F) and even these were not specifically marked as 'Harris' until the 1930's. Actually I think it was the Siphon Cs that were a staple of Harris traffic. Slinn's book on Siphons has a couple of pages on them as well as 2 photos of Siphon Cs branded for Calne sausage traffic. Scale Link produce a 2mm kit of the Siphon C. I have not tried it myself but I am planning to have a go. http://www.scalelink.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2escalelink%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fShire_Scenes_1_160%2ehtml&WD=siphon&SHOP=%20&PN=N_scale_GWR_4_wheel_coack_kits%2ehtml%23aSNFV05#aSNFV05 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2011 You cannot have too many siphons for Calne Steve. Don 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 However, I've no records of Harris' ever having their own 4-wheel box vans - all my information points towards leased GW Siphons (4 wheeled Siphon D and 40' bogie Siphon F) and even these were not specifically marked as 'Harris' until the 1930's. I'd be very interested to learn where B&D MRC got their 'inspiration' for the prototype? Actually I think it was the Siphon Cs that were a staple of Harris traffic. Slinn's book on Siphons has a couple of pages on them as well as 2 photos of Siphon Cs branded for Calne sausage traffic. Scale Link produce a 2mm kit of the Siphon C. I have not tried it myself but I am planning to have a go. http://www.scalelink...aSNFV05#aSNFV05 Thanks for the comment Karhedron, reading back, I should have been clearer about the 'box wagon' (...and Siphon D should have read Siphon C - Typo ). My observation was in respect to one of the limited edition PO wagons that Burnham and District Model Railway Club had on offer (image below). You're right that from the 1930s onwards, Harris' relied heavily on the Siphon wagons, with at least 13 Siphon C (Diags O8 & O9), two Siphon F (Diag O7), and one Siphon G (TBC). I believe that there were also two 40' Passenger Brake/Luggage Vans (Diag K15) that were used in the early '30s. I have one of the Scale Link Siphon etches but I have to say I wasn't overly ecstatic when I first received it. It looks reasonable well thought through, although not an 'easy' assembly as it uses extremely thin brass. However, my biggest gripe was with a distortion in the etch (possibly when the photo mask was made) but due to domestic upheavals I didn't get round to flagging this up with Shirescenes. I still will build the kit, as a practice to see how viable it is (and see if I can mask the distortion); if it goes together OK I'll get a couple more for the layout. I'd be interested in your views on the kit when you have a crack at it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 You're right that from the 1930s onwards, Harris' relied heavily on the Siphon wagons, with at least 13 Siphon C (Diags O8 & O9), two Siphon F (Diag 07), and at least one Siphon G (TBC). I believe that there were also two 40' Passenger Brake/Luggage Vans (Diag K15) that were used in the early '30s. I have one of the Scale Link Siphon etches but I have to say I wasn't overly ecstatic when I first received it. It looks reasonable well thought through, although not an 'easy' assembly as it uses extremely thin brass. However, my biggest gripe was with a distortion in the etch (possibly when the photo mask was made) but due to domestic upheavals I didn't get round to flagging this up with Shirescenes. I still will build the kit, as a practice to see how viable it is (and see if I can mask the distortion); if it goes together OK I'll get a couple more for the layout. I'd be interested in your views on the kit when you have a crack at it. Can't offer any views on the Scale Link/Shirescenes Siphon C - I'm half-tempted to buy one, but haven't succumbed yet. I have got an unbuilt Ultima Siphon F, which looks promising - etch appears to be clean, and instructions look fairly comprehensive, but lots of tiny parts to attach... Not sure whether the provided bogies will be satisfactory, or whether to go for Association ones, need to add wheels, bearings and couplings in any case. Ultima also have Siphon G in their range, but out of stock at present (too modern for my requirements anyway). David 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 You cannot have too many siphons for Calne Steve. Don Too right there Don! I'd like to do the whole fleet, but at some point even I have to set some bounds to the aspirations... I've already got two Siphon Fs (Ultima etches which I'll use Association bogies on) and I'm aiming for about 6 Siphon Cs for the Harris branded traffic. This should allow one for each of the major 'routes', such as, Southampton & Portsmouth, Reading & Paddington, Manchester, Carlisle & Glasgow, Newport & Cardiff, and one simply "Return to Calne" (there was also Sheffield, Bristol Temple Meads, and I thought Newcastle, but I can't find the reference for that one at the minute). A while back (see here) I cross referred the main references on The Calne Branch (Maggs' and Tanner's essential works) with Slinn's GW Siphons to try and build up a prototypical operation for the Harris traffic. I'm still not 100% happy with it as there are question marks against the Siphon F movements (the Newcastle run!) which may have been confused with the 40' Luggage vans - either way, there's enough to form a target, and if not completely accurate, it will still give operational interest. Can't offer any views on the Scale Link/Shirescenes Siphon C - I'm half-tempted to buy one, but haven't succumbed yet. I have got an unbuilt Ultima Siphon F, which looks promising - etch appears to be clean, and instructions look fairly comprehensive, but lots of tiny parts to attach... Not sure whether the provided bogies will be satisfactory, or whether to go for Association ones, need to add wheels, bearings and couplings in any case. Ultima also have Siphon G in their range, but out of stock at present (too modern for my requirements anyway). David Fully agree with your comments there David. The Ultima kit does look nicely prepared, albeit a little daunting in that there is a lot of fine soldering to do (same goes for the Scale Link one); I've had mine for several months now and still haven't built up the courage to start them yet. I suppose when I've got some track to run them on, and a loco to pull them, I'll be shamed into starting the growing assortment of rolling stock.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Peters Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Hi Steve, Not sure if you have seen it or you have been told about it, but there is a picture of a pannier auto train with a pair of 4 wheel siphons attached at the other end, so the pannier is in the middle. Picture is in 'The Great Western Railway 150 glorious years' page 192 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Hi Steve, Not sure if you have seen it or you have been told about it, but there is a picture of a pannier auto train with a pair of 4 wheel siphons attached at the other end, so the pannier is in the middle. Picture is in 'The Great Western Railway 150 glorious years' page 192 Thanks Andrew, I don't think I've got that book, but I've got a similar picture in Tanner's The Calne Branch (pp56). This shows a 14xx 'pushing' its auto-coach out of Calne on the 11:05 am Sunday service (possibly mid 1950's), but it is pulling (in order): a 50' Siphon (either an H or outside framed G), a Siphon C, a 12T box van (Mink or equivalent?), two more Siphon C's, and lastly a 4-wheeled utility van (ex-SR CCT?). Based on earlier timetables, the Siphon C's were probably working the routes to Southampton, Cardiff, and Manchester, and (educated guess here...) the Siphon H/G (replacing the older Siphon F) on to Newcastle via Reading & Paddington. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 After some fascinating and enjoyable diversions, in painting up the static steam engine, another day helping exhibit WE, and keeping up with RMW ongoing serious background research , it really was about time to get back to working on the layout. I consider board 3 to be a success in that basically it worked - power to all rails, points throw correctly when operated, and the 'test' engine negotiated the track in all directions. Now time to crack on with board 2... This was always going to be a daunting task in constructing the 9 points, six of which are nose-to-tail running parallel to the platform and feed the sidings and the milk bay... ...there are another 4 points further down the board but I somehow omitted to capture them Actually, the laying of the straight track was the hardest part (this is v4!); whilst getting each section (about 240mm long) straight, I found it very difficult to get a perfect alignment between sections - I need to find a 'TrackSetta' for 9.42mm gauge! When viewed from vertically down and from the side, it appeared OK, but with eye level just above the rails, the view along the track showed distinct kinks at the joints. I'm not a 100% happy with it, because I know that there are still imperfections at the joints, but rather than make it worse by further 'fettling' (it was a case of one step forwards-two steps back during several of the re-work attempts), I'll leave it for now. If necessary, I'll revisit this once I've tested the running characteristics. In addition to the straight track into the platform, I've laid down all of the sleepers for 7 of the 9 points; it was very worthwhile having worked out the sleeper arrangement beforehand so effectively this was a simple (if repetitive) production line - it may have been simple, but it still took 4 evenings to prepare and fix the 175 odd sleepers . Looking back at the picture, it is apparent that there is still some further tidying-up of the ends of the sleepers to smarten-up the alignment along the left hand side - these photos really are useful in highlighting those little flaws that have previously gone unnoticed! The experience gained with board 3 did show that there were considerable areas that could be improved, specifically in the endurance of the points. After a lot of deliberation (and construction failures...) I'd had an idea how I wanted to increase the use of PCB sleepers in the Easitrac points (see here); whilst this makes the point something of a hybrid, I think it will be possible to 'tweak' when being built and will in the long-term be stronger. The image below gives the typical lay-down of the sleepers, showing the placement of the PCB strips in relation to the plastic ones... ...there is one variation to the original concept in that I have added another PCB sleeper (3rd from left) to further support/shape the blades. With the sleepers in place, it was a convenient time to pre-drill the holes for the droppers, and the slot for the moving-sleeper throw wire. There is still some further thinking to be done here; following a discussion on the Association VAG, I picked up on the suggestion/guideline to aim for 2 power feeds per rail - so obvious a concept really, that I'd overlooked that 'system reliability is improved by redundancy'! The next stage is to lay the long straight rail (sectioned - either the rail or me ) to give datum for each of the common crossings; oh joy more jig work! But before I can get on with this I need to fill and smooth insulating cuts in the PCB sleepers. They've has a first pass of fine surface filler, but will need another run over to get a properly level surface; I'd like to find a better (finer) type of filler for this but I'm scratching my head as to what to get. Is there some form of fine filler (brush) paint that could be used? Again something that becomes apparent under close scrutiny is that a number of the plastic sleeper strips will need to have their edges dressed - the cut edge is not as clean as I would like. I've still got a further six milled sleeper bases to make for the join between boards 1 & 2 (there are 9 in total needed - I really will have to be damned careful with the alignment here!) and as the majority of the cuts will be on an angle, I'll increase the overall strip length from 8 sleepers to either 10 or 12. Well, that's the progress for now - nothing spectacular, but steady progress nevertheless. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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