Bachmann 7F, LNER vans and steel opens

[Colin]

53809 arrived on shed yesterday and immediately underwent acceptance trials (interrupted by the discovery of a bent slidebar, easily sorted). IMHO a really superb model with performance to match, although I wonder if the valve gear needs a little attention (shouldn't the cranks lean forward on these engines?)

However, the loco has now gone into store until the 25th.

 

Looking forward to the traditional Christmas morning running session with my 2P as pilot!

[neal]

Blimey, the fire-lighters will be up early for all those 7F's, 28's, 38's and L1's they'll have to get in steam!

 

Perhaps Santa has a window tapping stick on his sleigh.

 

N

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Looks like the manufacturers still need educating on Walschearts Valve Gear.

All the necessary parts are there, a little adjustment and you have a correct Walschaerts arrangement...

[robmcg]

Looks like the manufacturers still need educating on Walschearts Valve Gear.

 

Seems Bachmann persist in having one side of many locos with reverse-offset return cranks on the centre driver, and most are supposed to be forward-offset, so far as I know, but I notice that rebuilt West Country and Battle of Britain locos have reverse-offset on the 12" to the foot versions.

 

Anyone know which locos had reverse offset? Very few as far as I'm aware.

 

Mind you, next I shall want operating reversing gear..

 

Rob

[Poor Old Bruce]

Seems Bachmann persist in having one side of many locos with reverse-offset return cranks on the centre driver, and most are supposed to be forward-offset, so far as I know, but I notice that rebuilt West Country and Battle of Britain locos have reverse-offset on the 12" to the foot versions.

 

Anyone know which locos had reverse offset? Very few as far as I'm aware.

Perhaps the makers have one forward and one rearward so that at least one is correct. I am sure that even the continental makers like Roco did the same thing at one time (they may still).

 

Locos that I know of with reverse offset are these S&DJR 2-8-0s, the Deeley Dock Tanks. Big Bertha and the rebuilt Bulleids, all of which have outside admission valves. I understand that the Southern 'Woolwich Moguls' also have reverse offset but with inside admission and the die block is raised for forward gear rather than lowered as in most arrangements. There are probably other examples as well.

 

[edit] Nearly forgot to say that for outside admission valves the valve spindle connection to the combination lever is above that of the valve rod (Bachmann have got that bit right) while for inside admission, it's the other way round.

[robertcwp]

My 7F on its first test run today:

[Kempenfelt]

Apologies if i'm causing trouble here but shouldn't the 7f have been allowed to have it's own thread! (and yes I know it's been locked now!) After all, this thread was started with the intension of discussing the pre production models! It does get confusing when you wan't to read up about the 7f and half way through someone starts talking about LNER wagons ................and vice versa of course!

 

On the subject of the 7F, I got the chance to have a close up look at one last night at a suitable prototype location. Pic's I believe will be coming to RMWeb soon! She is definitely a fantastic bit of work by Bachmann! My only minor niggle is the cab handrail being visable on the underside of the cab roof, seams an odd decision! Hopefully a P4 conversion shouldn't be too dificult/require too much to be thrown away!

 

Big thumbs up Bachmann!!!!

 

 

[amdaley]

Yes indeed a big :good_mini:to Bachmann who are producing some superb models. Sure they have little faults/variations but so did the prototypes The 7F looks superb.

[Colin]

Perhaps the makers have one forward and one rearward so that at least one is correct. I am sure that even the continental makers like Roco did the same thing at one time (they may still).

(Sorry to digress)

Definitely - I used to have a Roco BR41 2-8-2 and Fleischmann BR38 4-6-0, both with that very problem which I never tried to fix due to the delicacy of the parts and the cost of the locos! They were both quite recent models and I doubt that the tooling has ever been altered.

They disappeared with the rest of my DB HO stock some time ago - bit of a mistake....

[robmcg]

Weathered 7F 53810 at Hattons now... (hope it hasn't been already mentioned)

 

Now if only the Royal Mail and the airports keep working.... !

 

Rob

[robmcg]

Perhaps the makers have one forward and one rearward so that at least one is correct. I am sure that even the continental makers like Roco did the same thing at one time (they may still).

 

Locos that I know of with reverse offset are these S&DJR 2-8-0s, the Deeley Dock Tanks. Big Bertha and the rebuilt Bulleids, all of which have outside admission valves. I understand that the Southern 'Woolwich Moguls' also have reverse offset but with inside admission and the die block is raised for forward gear rather than lowered as in most arrangements. There are probably other examples as well.

 

[edit] Nearly forgot to say that for outside admission valves the valve spindle connection to the combination lever is above that of the valve rod (Bachmann have got that bit right) while for inside admission, it's the other way round.

 

Ah, thankyou for that. I certainly didn't know the S&D 7Fs had reverse offset. As you say, Bachmann get one side right!

 

Rob

[Poor Old Bruce]

I certainly didn't know the S&D 7Fs had reverse offset. As you say, Bachmann get one side right!

Not quite that simple. After years of telling the manufacturers, Bachmann have finally got both sides of the loco the same - but wrong. To be fair, they did get it right on the 82000 Tank.

[buffalo]

I can only assume that my 7F remains stuck in the Royal Mail's version of a Mendip snowdrift where it has probably been since leaving Hattons on 7th December In the meantime, I've been drooling over the posted photos and rummaging through books to remind myself about the prototypes. This has led me to wondering why manufacturers choose a specific number for their model releases.

 

53809 is an obvious choice for the late crest version as it reflects the prototype's final working years and its current preserved state. Equally, 53810 looks like a reasonable choice for the weathered late crest version. Why, though, did they choose 53806 for the early crest version? As far as I can see, it is the least appropriate choice. This loco was the last of the Stephenson built batch to have its large boiler replaced by the smaller type, and this only happened in August 1955. This then is the earliest date that it could have been seen in the form depicted in the model. In fact, 53809 and 53910 would be the best choices for the early crest as these were the only locos from this batch to receive small boilers before nationalisation.

 

I don't know when, or if, 53806 was coupled to a tender bearing a late crest. This would at least allow me to bracket the possible date range for the model. What I have found is that some 7F appear to have been still carrying early crests until at least 1958, that few of them were ever clean enough for the crest to be visible, and that Ivo Peters does not seem to have been very interested in tenders

 

In fact, the earliest definite photos I've found of a 7F with late crest are two of 53807 in 1960 in which it appears to be very clean and probably freshly painted.

 

Nick

[robmcg]

Well Nick I hate to say it but Hattons sent a 7F to me in NZ and it arrived this morning, what a fine model!

 

 

I haven't retouched any detail on the loco, it really does look the part in this quick photo,

 

 

Rob

[buffalo]

Rob,

 

No doubt yours wasn't sent via SE England Mine will hopefully arrive on Sunday. Anything larger than a small packet has been delivered on Sundays for the last month. My 28XX was sent from Hattons two days after the 7F but it arrived last Sunday. I've also had a 'next day' delivery arrive exactly a week after dispatch.

 

Yes, it does look to be a fine model. Your photo confirms one thing I'd wondered about which was whether they had got the smokebox saddle right. It looks like they have correctly modelled the spacer that was needed between the saddle and the smokebox when the smaller boiler was fitted.

 

Nick

[robmcg]

Yes its a very fine model. I added lamps and shaded and messed around as I am wont to do, and wonder if the S&D was upper or lower quadrant? I think I've seen upper at Evercreech Junct. and lower at Radstock, but stand to be corrected.

 

Rob

 

[buffalo]

I didn't have to wait until Sunday after all, 53806 cleared the snowdrift and arrived this morning :D

 

S&DJR* signals were mostly upper quadrant on LSWR lattice posts, though there was a thin scattering of upper quadrants all over the place between Bath and Broadstone, and also some on the Branch.

 

Nick

 

* Be careful of calling it the S&D on here, there are a few northern folk who think that refers to some old coal railway. Of course, 53806 has been there as well, visiting for their centenary celebrations, but in those days it was brand new, had a large boiler and was number 86.

[Guest Belgian]

I didn't have to wait until Sunday after all, 53806 cleared the snowdrift and arrived this morning :D

 

S&DJR* signals were mostly upper quadrant on LSWR lattice posts, though there was a thin scattering of upper quadrants all over the place between Bath and Broadstone, and also some on the Branch.

 

Nick

 

* Be careful of calling it the S&D on here, there are a few northern folk who think that refers to some old coal railway. Of course, 53806 has been there as well, visiting for their centenary celebrations, but in those days it was brand new, had a large boiler and was number 86.

And there are some who think that S&DJR refers to my local line, the Salisbury and Dorset Junction Railway!

 

JE

[Ian J.]

And there are some who think that S&DJR refers to my local line, the Salisbury and Dorset Junction Railway!

 

JE

It applies to both

[Poor Old Bruce]

This has led me to wondering why manufacturers choose a specific number for their model releases.

This is one of life's little imponderables alongside the question 'Why do farmers always put gates in the muddiest parts of fields?'. To a great extent it is understandable that models of the second batch have been produced as two of them are preserved. That said, No.88 has a hybrid tender with a short Fowler body on a long Deeley chassis but I dare say that someone at some time will want Bachmann to produce a Prussian Blue model to go with Hornby's 4F (which, like the 7F, never carried blue in traffic) and 2P. The SDJR 4Fs were also similar to the Midland Railway locos (I differentiate from the LMS-built locos) in being right-hand drive, having beaded splashers and Johnson tenders, i.e. quite different (to me anyway) from the model. It is a peculiarity that makers have produced the later versions of locos and still expect us not to notice when they number the model as an earlier version. Hornby have re-tooled their 28xx to provide different versions and there are two different L1 bodies, it remains to be seen if anyone will do anything for the 4F and 2P.

 

I apoligise if this sounds a bit rambling - blame it on Man-Flu.

[buffalo]

A copy of 'The Somerset and Dorset Files', No 1, arrived on my doorstep this morning, so I can now partially answer one my own questions. This issue contains a useful article on the 7Fs headed by a side view of 53806 with a tender carrying the early crest in August 1963. As this was taken only five months before it was withdrawn, it seems likely that 53806 never carried a late crest, even if the model in small boiler form is only suitable for a few months of the nominal early crest period. So, it appears that Bachmann have got it right.

 

...No.88 has a hybrid tender with a short Fowler body on a long Deeley chassis...

 

Is this the same one that was used when the early series had their 7 ton tenders replaced by smaller 5.5 ton types? If so, that one was apparently fitted to 53800 and later to 53804, though I've not found dates for this. Was it only fitted to 53808 in preservation?

 

As Poor Old Bruce has raised the issue of tenders, about which I know very little, I have another question. The toolboxes (I think that's what they are) on the model have a raised centre section, but those on the tender in the photo of 53806 have a flat top without this central higher part. Can anyone throw any light on this as I have yet to find any other photos in which the front of the tender is visible.

 

Nick

 

ps. I agree about spurious blue liveries, but at least 53808 (as 88) has carried it in preservation, albeit with the wrong boiler, etc.

[Chris Nevard]

What a lovely photo - like many, really looking forward to tinkering with Bachmann's finest which is currently t on route and probably stuck in a drift up near Masbury.

Who will be the first to post their home weathered/renumbered up one?

[Mike Arnold]

I believe the tender was taken from 53804 at the latest when it was withdrawn. There is a shot of 53804 being towed away in February 1962 for scrap in the 1960-62 part of the Ivo Peters books by OPC and it is the standard design of Midland tender but still has the original lion on wheel tender crest (photo 165). Have not found a shot to prove when the tender may have been swapped. However, 53808 in photo 187 in the same volume appears to have the longer wheel base tender in August 1962 and again in photos 208 and 211 in September 1962. There is a really clear colour shot dated 30 September 1962 on page 93 of the S&D in Colour book by OPC and the long wheelbase tender is attached. In the same volume 53808 has a standard tender at page 59 in September 1960. I'll keep ploughing through to see when 53804 changed tenders as it appears to have the original tender which had an extra fillet to form a step as late as July 1959. 53800 was the first withdrawn in 1959 so if there was a swap from 53800 to 04 it must have been on that withdrawal.

 

quote name='buffalo' timestamp='1292514410' post='281712']

A copy of 'The Somerset and Dorset Files', No 1, arrived on my doorstep this morning, so I can now partially answer one my own questions. This issue contains a useful article on the 7Fs headed by a side view of 53806 with a tender carrying the early crest in August 1963. As this was taken only five months before it was withdrawn, it seems likely that 53806 never carried a late crest, even if the model in small boiler form is only suitable for a few months of the nominal early crest period. So, it appears that Bachmann have got it right.

 

 

 

Is this the same one that was used when the early series had their 7 ton tenders replaced by smaller 5.5 ton types? If so, that one was apparently fitted to 53800 and later to 53804, though I've not found dates for this. Was it only fitted to 53808 in preservation?

 

As Poor Old Bruce has raised the issue of tenders, about which I know very little, I have another question. The toolboxes (I think that's what they are) on the model have a raised centre section, but those on the tender in the photo of 53806 have a flat top without this central higher part. Can anyone throw any light on this as I have yet to find any other photos in which the front of the tender is visible.

 

Nick

 

ps. I agree about spurious blue liveries, but at least 53808 (as 88) has carried it in preservation, albeit with the wrong boiler, etc.

[robmcg]

I didn't have to wait until Sunday after all, 53806 cleared the snowdrift and arrived this morning :D

 

S&DJR* signals were mostly upper quadrant on LSWR lattice posts, though there was a thin scattering of upper quadrants all over the place between Bath and Broadstone, and also some on the Branch.

 

Nick

 

* Be careful of calling it the S&D on here, there are a few northern folk who think that refers to some old coal railway. Of course, 53806 has been there as well, visiting for their centenary celebrations, but in those days it was brand new, had a large boiler and was number 86.

 

Hey presto, the signal is upper quadrant, though as ever there is no part of the line which I can think of with a junction signal arrangement as illustrated...

 

Such is the nature of these new-fangled cameras... and whatever the means of recording a sight, the 7F is a fine model.

 

I have a pre-ordered weathered 53810 somewhere in transit between Liverpool and here... and I'm wondering if 7Fs were allowed

to double-head if even for loco balance workings, also would also like to ask how often in BR days they ran tender-first?

 

Rob

 

[Ed-farms]

would also like to ask how often in BR days they ran tender-first?

 

I am not sure how often it occured but the turntable at Shepton Mallet was too small to fit a 7F soif theyworked a freight to their they would then run backwards,so it can be done.