HMC (Keyser) Terrier

[hayfield]

I have been trying to prune my loco collection of both made and unmade kits over the past month. I have a K's Terrier painted black and missing a few detail parts, but with a good chassis. I also brought an unmade set of body castings and the paperwork inside stated a company called HMC Group Spilsby Lincs. I seperatly brought an early chassis with the older type of wheels which needs restoring.

 

This is what I was going to sell

 

When checking the castings against my built loco I had not realised how many parts were missing. Thinking it was stupid to sell a better example than the one I was keeping. And as I was going to re-build and paint the one I have, I thought it was much wiser to keep the body kit, use the working chassis add additional parts / extra detail and use the spare (un-used) Mk2 motor for an old Grange kit I got. And sell the old body and the chassis which needs restoring

 

 

I started the build last night, stuck an 8ba bolt through the footplate and used filler to hide it, then stuck the buffer beams, sides, rear cab wall and tank front. Checking at various stages that the chassis still works with no binding/shorts. This evening added the bunker rear wall and cab front.

 

 

I will have to fit new pickups from PCB board rather than the K's plastic one. However I might change the motor for one with a rear shaft as I think I might have a flywheel that will fit coming with some spares I brought. Though the thought of a near empty cab is appealing

 

Now to find some photos I have of the KESR Terrier as I have no plans.

[hayfield]

 

One of my photos from the KESR. Have to find out if all these pipes were on the SR ones

 

I have done a bit more to the loco, before I fit the boiler tank top I am filling the joints as they are easier to sand flat now. Etched window bars fitted and I had to file a little off the cab side interior where the rear wheels are. Also the rear of the chassis is slightly out, I will adjust it once the buffers have been fitted.

 

 

Running very well now the cab sides have been thinned, still going to sort out the pickups. And found some cast buffers about the right shape

 

Good pictures on this site http://southernrailway.net/search/display_pic.php?search_fd0=32967

[John_Hughes]

Looking good so far!

 

The rule with Terriers is to find a piccy of the specific one you want to model, as they varied so much over the years. Some of the variations were 'standard' in a sense - like the bigger bunkers on the IoW engines - but others seem to have been 'one-offs'.

 

The K's kit is specifically an A1 (rather than the modified A1X) which rather restricts the choice of proper prototypes or the choice of dates; a very few engines did keep some A1 features very late, but you may prefer to make a 'generic' one and just enjoy that!

 

One point - I don't think any Terrier ever had cab handrails supported by stanchions as the K's kit provides. Again, this may not bother you - it's your own choice so just have fun!

[Horsetan]

HMC Group was the name adopted by Chris Crawley Models, which - in a fit of empire building - managed to acquire all of K's, Nu-Cast, M&L Premier, and Pirate Models bus kits, amongst other things in the late 1980s/early 1990s. I think it was all run from the Old Station House, Firsby, nr. Spilsby, Lincs. Prior to this, K's kits had mostly been available through Teign Models in Devon - they advertised very regularly in RM.

 

If there was an advantage to all of this, it was the fact that spare parts from the kits now became available separately. I bought a K's Duchess (non-streamlined) body and tender kit from Chris Crawley in about 1991. The only useable part of it was the boiler!

[hayfield]

Thanks John for the comments and advice and Horsetan for the info on HMC. Done a bit more to it this evening.

 

 

Buffers added, I think they are SEF LNER/SR type, last nights filling sanded. As you can see the tank top/ boiler / smoke box fitted along with a Crownline A1X chimney (sorry John fitted it before reading your advice) I have shown the bits out of my spares box that may be fitted.

 

Now waiting for the filler to dry before sanding. I will have a look at a few photos but it will be a generic loco. Hand rails are the next problem so I will look at plotos.

 

 

 

John a couple of photos of the cab hand rails, though these may be more KESR rather than LBSC / SR

[Nick C]

One of my photos from the KESR. Have to find out if all these pipes were on the SR ones

 

That's one of those things that very much depends which Loco you're modelling! The third pipe in your photo (between the coupling and the nearest buffer) is for the Westinghouse air brake, so should be fitted if it has the pump on the right hand side of the cab.

 

'78 as preserved is a bit of a 'generic' loco itself, as it was on the Isle of Wight for a while and so was fitted with the extended bunker from the late 20s onwards.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Have an up-to-date shot of one of the current Island ones:

[John_Hughes]

John, I think those handrails are about right; the neat little turn-out was needed to clear the splasher, and the entrance was pretty narrow anyway.

 

As originally built the locos didn't even had coal-rails, let alone an extended bunker, but were still apparently expected to do a full day's suburban work on one bunker filling.

 

Stroudley was famously proud of the efficiency of his locos, and trained the crews in economical firing techniques; and it was said that a Terrier would run on coal that a Webb compound would throw out of the chimney.

[Horsetan]

.....As originally built the locos didn't even had coal-rails, let alone an extended bunker, but were still apparently expected to do a full day's suburban work on one bunker filling.....

 

....and here is my photo of the bunker on Fenchurch, which is currently in A1 form rather than A1X. Hope it's of some use:

 

[hayfield]

Thanks every one for the replys, every one is different !!

 

 

I think mine will be a K's generic version with a few bits added on, I guess the non extended bunker version does not need rear window bars. I like the hook for the coupling, and also the 2 white lamps look good as well.

 

Spent too much time in front of the telly to do much more than a bit of sanding tonight.

[sagaguy]

HMC Group was the name adopted by Chris Crawley Models, which - in a fit of empire building - managed to acquire all of K's, Nu-Cast, M&L Premier, and Pirate Models bus kits, amongst other things in the late 1980s/early 1990s. I think it was all run from the Old Station House, Firsby, nr. Spilsby, Lincs. Prior to this, K's kits had mostly been available through Teign Models in Devon - they advertised very regularly in RM.

 

If there was an advantage to all of this, it was the fact that spare parts from the kits now became available separately. I bought a K's Duchess (non-streamlined) body and tender kit from Chris Crawley in about 1991. The only useable part of it was the boiler!

 

 

Hi.Does anyone know if Chris is still around.I remember him having a shop in Bruce Grove,Tottenham,N.London in the 1970`s when he used to carry

a few bits for n gauge.After that,he moved to Lincs!!!.

Ray.

[hayfield]

A bit more has been done this afternoon on detailing

 

 

The hand rails have taken ages, there was no provision on the tank tops and boiler, so I have placed them about where they are on the photos I have, the cab handrails were ever harder and I have had to repair a couple of places on the footplate where the soldering iron got too close.

 

 

All the K's details have not been added except the footplate and roof. Only other details which will be added are coupling hooks, lamp iron and steam pipes, these will have to wait till the filler has set and sanded.

 

I am splitting my time between this and trying to build a P4 turnout, so out with the soldering again. The loco will now be parked up till tomorrow, and no it will not be converted into P4.

[Nick Holliday]

Looking very nice, but just a small point, the two horizontal arms of the Salters valves should face forward and sit on top of the dome (and should be parallel unlike the Hornby/Dapol version)although I can't tell from your post whether they have been fixed yet.

[hayfield]

Nick

 

Thanks, I have no instructions and the photos I have do not have these valves. They are superglued so no problem in turning them arround.

[hayfield]

Having finished the detailing I fitted the steps, just a simple but joint si I positioned them under the cab doors.

 

 

As soon as I fitted the chassis I could see there would be problems with the coupling rods, will take them off and try and thin the botton beading on the footplate and see if that will give it the clearence needed.

[hayfield]

I have had lots of problems fitting the steps, as the coupling rods kept jamming against them. In the end I had to thin the inside of the footplate side vallance and the bottom of the step. Still all now works, but if the steps are to week (the glue joint) then I will have to solder them to the footplates.

 

 

Now to sort out the Ramsbottom valves. I think I will have to fit the roof before painting as I want to fit a floor, as the roof just sits on top of the cab sides a bit of filling will be needed. Still happy with the results so far.

[GC Jack]

Great little model thanks for posting

 

Jack

[John_Hughes]

One dodge that may help with the steps: drill a hole (about #72?) vertically through the footplate directly behind the steps and on their centre-line, force-fit a bit of brass wire through the hole and glue (solder if you're feeling brave!) the back of the steps to it. Quite invisible, and it doesn't half strengthen the steps!

 

(The real problem, of course, is that the crank-throw of the wheels is too great, so instead of clearing the steps - which is why they have that nifty little curve in the front of them - they clout them instead!)

[Kenton]

The real problem, of course, is that the crank-throw of the wheels is too great, so instead of clearing the steps - which is why they have that nifty little curve in the front of them - they clout them instead!

Or possibly the chassis is set a few thou too far back on the footplate.

 

But I like that tip about the wire - must file that one away in my head for similar problems.

I would have used a brass angle to reinforce - nowhere near as smart

[hayfield]

John thanks for that,

 

I am hoping that the epoxy I have used (B&Q Epoxy Metal ) will be strong enough. Hopefully it will hold and fileing the bottom half back of the steps will give enough room.

[hayfield]

A quick update this morning, the steps have stuck quite solid. The combination of thinning the footplate vallance and the rear of bottom half of the steps coupled with slightly splaying out the step bottoms seem to have worked and is keeping the steps away from the coupling rod bushes.

 

When I give the chassis a quick tidy up I will fit thin black plasticard spacers between the rear wheels and the chassis to reduce sideplay. That will be much easier than trying to remove the wheels and fit washers.

 

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions, I guess I will rue the day I did not fit brass rods behind the steps.

[ianmaccormac]

Hi Hayfield

Photo of preserved one to help with the valves

Cheers

Ian in Blackpool

[hayfield]

Ian

 

Thanks I been away for a few days so could not thank you, the photo is very helpfull

[hayfield]

Thought I better get a move on and finish the loco, during the week I got the airbrush out and gave it a coat, then brush painted the rest. I have misslayed my SR livery book so I have just copied the livery from photos on the web. No doubt I have got parts wrong.

 

 

On Thursday night no one was bidding on this Terrier, bit of a down beat description (paintwork a bit heavy) but as the Nucast ones are now £94 and need motor and gears I thought it was worth bidding. After a quick clean and oil it ran well. Whilst it has been brush painted, the quality of the tricky LBSCR livery is very good, and I would struggle to better it so I started touching up some of the paintwork which had been damaged.

 

 

I had to repair one of the Ramsbottom valves and fitted some rear window bars. The loco had no cab steps,from memory I had a problem fitting the steps on the other one as they too close to the coupling rods. I have made some holes in the floor but none of the ones I have will fit. I think I will have to make some out of plasticard.

 

Now to letter a GEM 56xx on a Hornby chassis which I have decided to sell, as I have 3 more of them either being or waiting to be built all have etched chassis.