5ft x 4ft trackplan

[jamesinkl]

Hi all,

 

As mentioned in my original post on "Locomotive & Maintenance cleaning" thread that I was looking to make a layout, essentially to run my trains on. I have settled on a 5ft x 4ft baseboard due to the limitations of space, which would allow me to put the layout away under the bed when not in use. Doing a few bits of research on the web, and through books such as CJ Freezer's plans for small locations, Peco's current edition planbook. It is hardly surprising that I could not find a track plan that appealed to me and that could be fitted into a 5ft x 4ft baseboard until I came across on the RMWeb's old forum of "How to build a train set in 6 weeks" quite an interesting read and it enlightened me on how a train layout could look like on a small piece of baseboard.

 

I had a little play around with AnyRail to design a track that's loosely based on the track plan that was envisaged by the guys who did the 6 weeks project. I have included the Hornby track part numbers because most of the track that I do have currently is Hornby and from what I read is that Peco tracks have a slightly different geometry and would this affect the overall design of the track plan if I was to mix with Peco and Hornby tracks?

 

Please find the track plan below, It is of 1:8 ratio as seen on the program AnyRail, and each square is 1ft x 1ft for reference.

 

 

I am thinking of having a coal yard in the top right siding, and a goods yard on the inside siding, and an engine shed on the lower right sidings, and a signal box just further up of the bottom-left siding, with the station being in the same place as the 6 weeks project as I thought it was a brilliant place to be. I am thinking of having a double track tunnel at the very top so I can use the cutouts of the Scalescenes Pub in the current issue of Hornby Magazine to good use! Also, I am waiting until Hornby Magazine has the back issue of HM40 on line so I can order it and see the track plans that they have in that issue, as I missed it before settling on a track plan that would appeal to me. As I have posted this thread, I am very keen on to hear from you regarding any suggestions, improvements or even different alternatives to a track plan!

 

I look forward to hearing back from you all!

 

James

[trisonic]

My suggestion is to check out this site:http://www.carendt.com/index.html

 

Best, Pete.

[Kenton]

My personal opinion is that Hornby and Peco track don't mix well.

 

There was a recent thread on the use of curved point crossings - but I guess you will not have any long wheel base stock, or locos with pony trucks on a layout like that.

 

The sidings are incredibly small, with allowing sufficient room for clearance I estimate 2 or 3 short wheelbase wagons at the most.

 

The first impression is of a 6x4 layout squashed into the 5x4 - suggested by the two circuits not appearing to have equal space - but again this might be a trick of using Anyrail or mixing RTR manufacturers track. But if this is real getting the track to lay correctly may be an issue.

 

Personally given the space and desire for a roundy-roundy-watch-the-train-go-by-go-by-go-by....tailchase/test track I would opt for a single circuit and use the space gained to make a bit more use of siding space.

[Kris]

I feel that you need to add in some form of passing loop, Looking at the plan you have, I would suggest that adding a second cross over on the mainline would be the easiest way of doing this.

 

I would agree with Kenton though that having a single track would most likely look better. It think that this would help make the plan feel a bit less cramped.

[Dave777]

Yup, I agree too - go single line, have a passing loop, and I'd also take out the two sidings at bottom left to move away from the trainset look.

 

You might want to consider how you're going to use the space in the middle of the board - you've got 6 square feet there which is fairly big, so do you know what's going to go there? You could use up at least part of it with some sidings (the two removed from bottom left for example...).

 

If you don't mind me saying, at the moment it's a trackplan - what you need to consider is a layout. What's the scenic treatment? How will I operate it? What am I trying to achieve with it?

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

Through Cheshire-Ryder Volunteers I'm in the process of giving some help to build an r-t-r layout for a chap with Parkinson's Disease so have come across some small space issues.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with Kenton about going for a single line - takes less space and looks less crowded - been there and got the tee shirt as the chap I'm helping also wanted double line, and it did not work (albeit with slightly less width. Kenton is also spot on about siding space - in a small area you will rapidly find that it is not easy to get usable siding lengths.

 

Fortunately I haven't had to mix track from two manufacturers but looking at the geometry I can see that it would probably lead to difficulties.

 

Beware too of trying to run big locos - whatever the manufacturer might say about second radius curves it seems that sometimes things don't work out quite as expected and that flangeless trailing wheel on the Hornby LNER pacifics seems very good at derailing itself and the loco.

 

And a final point - you are no doubt younger, thinner, and more supple than me but trying to reach across a 4 foot wide board is not easy - do you have access all the way round it?

[Kris]

Having just read your comments on cleaning locos and the types of locos that you have, I suspect that you are wanting a "main line" scene with the option to do a bit of shunting as well. If this is the case I have in my fevered little mind a plan that might give you what you want. It is very different to the plan that you have at the moment but might give you what I think you are looking for. I won't post it here at the moment as I don't want it to distract from your ideas, but If you would like me to pop it up (it's only a rough sketch, back of an envelope style) give me a shout and up it shall go.

[jamesinkl]

My suggestion is to check out this site:http://www.carendt.com/index.html

Went across that site as part of my research into layouts with small locations and such. Took me a few hours to go through all the entries on the scrapbook section of the website, it certainly was most interesting.

 

As for the other replies since the original post, I am quite intrigued and I have taken on board the constructive criticism and had another look at the layout and incorporating the suggestions that have been made and devised another layout plan with a single mainline in mind with a passing loop which I interpreted as a long siding with connections to the main line on both ends? I have based this layout loosely on one trackplan that is in Peco's OO/HO planbook with some changes to it.

 

 

If you don't mind me saying, at the moment it's a trackplan - what you need to consider is a layout. What's the scenic treatment? How will I operate it? What am I trying to achieve with it?

I have something in mind for the layout, to incorporate a tunnel, and a hill in the middle similar to the 6 weeks project on RMWeb, which would have some buildings on it, which I have not decided what sort yet. The hill will have maybe 1 or 2 bridges across it to break up the scenery a bit so that it looks longer than it really is. But I have a hard time trying to imagine where things should be placed on AnyRail, until I get the baseboard constructed this week then I should have a better idea when the track is laid out temporarily to plan the layout around it.

 

Beware too of trying to run big locos - whatever the manufacturer might say about second radius curves it seems that sometimes things don't work out quite as expected and that flangeless trailing wheel on the Hornby LNER pacifics seems very good at derailing itself and the loco.

 

And a final point - you are no doubt younger, thinner, and more supple than me but trying to reach across a 4 foot wide board is not easy - do you have access all the way round it?

I do have access to all sides on the 5' x 4' board. I will keep the warning regarding 2nd radius curves in mind, I am looking for gentler curves too, but is this achievable on a constraint of 5' x 4'?

 

Having just read your comments on cleaning locos and the types of locos that you have, I suspect that you are wanting a "main line" scene with the option to do a bit of shunting as well. If this is the case I have in my fevered little mind a plan that might give you what you want. It is very different to the plan that you have at the moment but might give you what I think you are looking for. I won't post it here at the moment as I don't want it to distract from your ideas, but If you would like me to pop it up (it's only a rough sketch, back of an envelope style) give me a shout and up it shall go.

Oh please do put it up if you think it's worthwhile, I am very much open to any ideas at the moment as this is going to be my first attempt on making a layout so all feedback is very much welcome. I am also taking my time on this. I would like to thank you all for the comments regarding mix-matching Hornby and Peco track. I will be sticking with Hornby because I do have quite a lot of Hornby track here already from previous train sets.

 

James

[Kenton]

That looks a lot better

I would suggest further tweeks - move that Y point on the left forward it wuld then give you 2 decent sized sidings on the left.

Forget the "settrack" and use flexitrack to make all those curves fit smoothly where you want them. (though I realise the limitations of using the planning software to get the concept on paper.)

[Kris]

Right then James

 

Here is an idea for you.

 

 

Important note - this is a very rough plan. You would need to tweak it to ensure that every thing fitted, particularly the points in the middle.

Right that's the disclaimer done.

 

Lets start at the bottom. The twin green lines are your main line, allowing you to run your larger engines. The reality is you don't have very much space so I have kept these as simple as possible, just loops. These are on the bottom of the baseboard. The reason for these is to give you the watching trains go by that you requested. There is a cross over on these loops but I would not expect this to be used much. The front visiable side of this is on a slight curve to allow a limited amount of easing on the visible curves at the ends.

 

The pink lines give you the shunting potential. These lines are above the main line and are in no way physically connected (this might be a downside). Starting at the top (rear) of the layout there are two sidings. These are hidden storage sidings. The train leaves these and comes into view on at the front of the layout entering a loop. The engine then shunts the wagons into the sidings (some will recognise the three siding pattern here ). At the same time it is also making up the departing train. Once this is done the engine runs round the train using the loop and departs to the hidden sidings. The real flaw in this plan comes here. There is no run round loop in the hidden sidings due to space so the loco has to be removed and placed at the correct end of the train to restart this sequence.

Because of the positioning of the sidings some form of uncoupling mechanism is desirable here.

Train lengths are limited here by the length of the loop.

 

The blue dotted line is an idea as to where a back scene could be placed, this could obviously be changed.

 

In my mind the goods yard is on a raised viaduct with the arches of this having businesses in them. The exit of the main line at each end would be through these curves and the exit of the yard line would be hidden by buildings.

 

 

An even quicker sketch of the front of the layout.

 

It's by no means a perfect design, but I have tried to point out the flaws in it.

 

Feel free to ignore or steal the design as you wish.

[edcayton]

Hi James, a few points.

1) it's going under a bed. I presume a double? What is the minimum clearance height under the bed. If it is

a divan type you may not have clearance for a two level layout. Is there a leg in the middle of the bed (there is

on mine? Are there middle legs/castors on each side?

 

2) are you going to use it/work on it on the floor. If not you will have trouble lifting it onto supports by your-

self.

 

3) I always think multi-level layouts look really good, but I've never done one because I find it hard to think in

three dimensions. You have had a couple of good suggestions already.

 

4) Paul Lunn has produced some excellent setrack plans for Peco, featured in the Railway Modeller over the years. I

recommend you get his Setrack OO/HO Planbook.

 

5) If you look at Plan 12 in this book it gives you the mainline feel you want, plus shunting AND a loco shed! I

have never built one of his plans, but would assume if Peco give them their blessing that they do work. Has

anyone on here ever tried one?

 

6) This plan is designed for 5'x3'9", and does not have room for a two track oval. If you can go to 4' wide you can

probably Just get an outer circuit in. As always with small plans if you can get a little more space the layout

will be the better for it.

 

7) Unfortunately for copyright reasons this plan cannot be reproduced here, but the book is very reasonably priced

(less than a fiver IIRC) and has some brilliant ideas in it. It is also, as Dave777 points out, a layout scheme

rather than just a "track plan".

 

 

I have no axe to grind here, I'm not Paul Lunn under an alias nor do I work for Peco! I say again that I've not built one of these plans. You can get templates for the track and points, but as you have already got some track it would be better to use that and lay it out on a temporary base of some kind before you build the baseboard. Of course if you already have the baseboard you can use it and see if the track falls off the edge!

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Ed

[CullingworthGNR]

http://www.freetrackplans.com/413-Freight.php

 

How about something like this plan? 5'x3.5' with plenty of scope for scenic development. Cheers

[jamesinkl]

Lets start at the bottom. The twin green lines are your main line, allowing you to run your larger engines. The reality is you don't have very much space so I have kept these as simple as possible, just loops. These are on the bottom of the baseboard. The reason for these is to give you the watching trains go by that you requested. There is a cross over on these loops but I would not expect this to be used much. The front visiable side of this is on a slight curve to allow a limited amount of easing on the visible curves at the ends.

 

The pink lines give you the shunting potential. These lines are above the main line and are in no way physically connected (this might be a downside). Starting at the top (rear) of the layout there are two sidings. These are hidden storage sidings. The train leaves these and comes into view on at the front of the layout entering a loop. The engine then shunts the wagons into the sidings (some will recognise the three siding pattern here ). At the same time it is also making up the departing train. Once this is done the engine runs round the train using the loop and departs to the hidden sidings. The real flaw in this plan comes here. There is no run round loop in the hidden sidings due to space so the loco has to be removed and placed at the correct end of the train to restart this sequence.

Because of the positioning of the sidings some form of uncoupling mechanism is desirable here.

Train lengths are limited here by the length of the loop.

 

In my mind the goods yard is on a raised viaduct with the arches of this having businesses in them. The exit of the main line at each end would be through these curves and the exit of the yard line would be hidden by buildings.

 

Feel free to ignore or steal the design as you wish.

Excellent idea there Kris! That is quite similar to the Plan 14 in the 3rd edition of Peco Planbook. I have modified the plan below to incorporate the 2nd level aswell, I will be putting buildings on that level, which won't be stuck there but removable when the layout is not in use so that it can fit under the bed.

 

Lower Level

 

I was thinking of putting the station in the big gap in the passing loop so that it would take trains to unload passengers on both sides of the platform, along with a signal box just before the inside siding of the loop. I was thinking of putting in viaducts and girder bridges to mask the sides of the upper level, with arches to make up the wall to make it industrial like. At the back, it would be plain scenery, with grass and a hill to cover up the height of the upper level after the back of the buildings.

 

Upper Level

 

Shunting galore! I was thinking of putting a coal yard in the left-bottom, and a goods shed in the middle-left siding and a loco rest stop at the 2nd from top-right siding as I read up on a recent article on how locos operated in a goods yard. There was a Loco rest stop at both sides. This was interesting and something I would like to incorporate on the upper level. I assume I would have to give about 5" of height from the baseboard to the ceiling of the viaducts/girder bridges to allow trains run underneath without impediment.

 

4) Paul Lunn has produced some excellent setrack plans for Peco, featured in the Railway Modeller over the years. I

recommend you get his Setrack OO/HO Planbook.

 

5) If you look at Plan 12 in this book it gives you the mainline feel you want, plus shunting AND a loco shed! I

have never built one of his plans, but would assume if Peco give them their blessing that they do work. Has

anyone on here ever tried one?

 

6) This plan is designed for 5'x3'9", and does not have room for a two track oval. If you can go to 4' wide you can

probably Just get an outer circuit in. As always with small plans if you can get a little more space the layout

will be the better for it.

Which edition is that Peco OO/HO Planbook you're referring from then Ed? I am referring from the 3rd edition which has the multi-level layout plan (Plan 14) on Page 35, which certainly is something for me to consider. I have modified the plan slightly so that it has a longer siding as suggested earlier by a member, and I have moved the Y-point further forward. And to answer your questions Ed, yes it will go under a double bed, and there is no post in the middle. It is a wooden bed with around 8-10 inches of height. I will be making some popout stands to make the layout sit over the bed with room underneath. Based on earlier recommendations, I am going for a single mainline with a passing loop as this would offer more room on the layout for scenery, buildings and such.

 

How about something like this plan? 5'x3.5' with plenty of scope for scenic development. Cheers

That plan is something I am considering also. I'm in the process of getting the baseboard sorted which will definitely be 5' x 4' then I will try laying out the track on it from both ideas so far, so that it can help me visualise the layout which will include the scenery and such so that I can draw it up on paper and hopefully it's more obvious to me then I'll put it up here for further feedback.

 

James

[Kris]

Hi James. Pure fluke that I created a similar plan. I've not seen the book. With your plan I would suggest moving the top point so it is right next to the 2nd point. It will give you more space in the top 2 sidings making them more usable.

[edcayton]

I can't immediately see what edition it is, but I am looking at Plan 12 on pages 32-33. You won't be able to "shrink" Plan 14 to your board size, unless you go N gauge.

 

Ed

[jamesinkl]

Hi all,

 

It has been a while since I have replied to this thread. I have bought the timber and the baseboard top and it all has been constructed. I should have photographs up soon. Meanwhile it is 5' 6" x 4'. I also had a few fiddling with track plans and the current one that I am quite satisfied at the moment is the one below. It is a figure of eight, which I personally think is nicer to make it feel like it's a bigger layout than it really is.

 

 

I am trying to source any type of quarry/coal/cement works pictures and kits so I could prepare in advance whenever this layout is feasible or not. I am not having much luck when it comes to looking at model shops online that sells that sort of kit. As once again, I'm open to constructive feedback on things like this. I am hoping to make this kinda non-era specific so I could run any trains I would like to! Since I have an equal affinity for GWR trains/wagons/coaches and 1960-80's diesels.

 

James

[Kenton]

Check your "slopes up" and "slopes down" I think you are making the mistake we probably all have made once - thinking you can get a working gradient to get track up and over in 3ft or less.

 

Before building boards try it out on the floor, with track wired up to see if your loco can actually pull something (itself) up such a steep gradient.

[jamesinkl]

Check your "slopes up" and "slopes down" I think you are making the mistake we probably all have made once - thinking you can get a working gradient to get track up and over in 3ft or less.

 

Before building boards try it out on the floor, with track wired up to see if your loco can actually pull something (itself) up such a steep gradient.

 

I do intend to try out the gradients first before confirming it, but you are right... I am having second thoughts about whenever I could get a good gradient for any variety of locos. It's getting quite hard to settle on a plan to put to full use in a board that I have

 

I've ordered the back issue of HM39, so hopefully it'll have some track plans that might appeal to me.

 

James

[Kris]

Looks like almost the entire thing is on a gradient, could make it interesting to watch if the gradients are not to steep.

[Kenton]

Looks like almost the entire thing is on a gradient, could make it interesting to watch if the gradients are not to steep.

Kris - that is quite a good idea - just lose that cross-over and make the loop and quarry on the flat with everything els on the gradient. Difficult to do owell but would satisfy the roundy roundy and give some scope for hiding the different aspects in cuttings/tunnel/embankment. Possibly easier to do if the under/over loops were swapped putting the quarry on top level. Possibly ditch that short loco siding and replace it with a longer siding off what would now be the bottom of the layout (where the "slopes up in the tunnel" text is. You would now have some purpose for the layout - the shipment of stone from the quarry to that new siding.