The Sierra North Western

[Allegheny1600]

Hi guys,

First of all, an apology if you think this is a layout that is built!

It is (to be) the story of how i and a couple of my very good friends are planning to build this layout and over the coming months (and years!) how we went about doing it.

For a long time now, i have been very interested in the Chesapeake and Ohio railway and have been collecting some H0 stock, books, videos etc to help me to build my 'ultimate railway'. I did once start a small layout based upon a coal mine but a house move took care of that, it would have been much too small anyway.

A few years ago, i bought a large 00 gauge British exhibition layout with a view to running my C&O stuff (along with DB, DSB, KCS, C&NW etc!) stock on it - it was a layout for all seasons! I even built a dedicated shed (31'6" x 11'6"!!) just to house this layout (which is now for sale: http://www.rmweb.co....ayout-for-sale/ ) however i just could not get what i wanted from this layout and it always gave me a bad back with all the ducking under i had to do!

After getting an invite to operate on my friend Bob's layout, i saw just how i had always wanted to operate a layout and so, the end of Leigh Moor was nigh!

I planned and planned but simply could not fit all i wanted into my existing shed without sending the tracks out into a separate 8'x6' shed just for the spirals to change levels and knowing that my wife needed a new shed for her hobby, asked if she wanted my old shed.

She jumped at the chance, giving me the opportunity to design a brand new shed for the new railway! This new shed is going to be no less than 42'x12' and parallel with the existing shed, sadly i can't go to the 15' i would have preferred, as there would be no room between the two sheds!

So there we have it, (domestic) planning permission is granted, now to check on local government planning permission!

 

These are a couple of pictures of the site as it is now!

The new shed will extend a bit further out from where the green wooden shed is now and all the way back to the fence at the far end of the garden.

New shed will extend to between the green shed and the Hazelnut tree. The green shed should be able to be moved down by the side of the Hazelnut tree.

 

Plenty of work to be done here, eh?

Cheers,

John E.

 

Edit: Change of name from "Allegheny NW" to "Sierra NW"!

[Allegheny1600]

Now then, why the Allegheny North Western?

Well through the nineteen eighties and nineties, I was an avid reader of “Model Railroader†and Tony Koester’s “Trains of Thought†column where he described operations on his “Allegheny Midland†layout. The AM (as it was known) was based in part, upon the Chesapeake & Ohio railroad’s operations even if it was not an exact scale model of any particular station on the C&O.

Since my layout will be quite similar in concept and I live in the North West of England, I thought this would make a nice homage to a great layout and a very influential model railroader.

Similarly with place names on my railroad, I am going to use the names of famous fans associated with the real C&O, rather than real place names! For example a famous location on the C&O was called ‘Hinton’ but I shall call my version “Huddleston†after an author of several books on the prototype.

 

I believe this is similar to the ‘Prototype freelancing’ concept quite frequently used in the USA! This works well for me as I want my main-line to be single track with passing loops whereas the real thing in ‘my’ region is largely double track!

 

What I will also be doing is building a double deck layout!

 

This is quite a different concept to most railway layouts in the UK, possibly even outside of N. America. Normally one builds a layout to fill a given area whether that be 5’x1’ or 20’x10’ (or whatever!) and that is it!

In terms of verticality, while there may be mountains, tall buildings or whatever included, on this side of the Atlantic, we do not usually go any further.

A double deck (or multi deck!) layout however, is a way of massively increasing a given area, admittedly with a trade off in certain terms although with careful design, these can be made a feature of rather than being allowed to become drawbacks.

Because I want to represent operations on the C&O ranging from coal mines in the mountains of Appalachia down to the export docks at Newport News, a distance of several hundred miles(!), I need a long length of main-line.

I also suffer from a bad back, so no more duck-under for me!

Therefore the basic concept of the layout will be that one can enter the shed and find a large (30†radius) spiral on the right hand side, by the doorway.

The main emerges from the ‘bottom’ of the spiral beyond which will be the docks, this will be ‘tidewater’ - the ‘bottom’ of the layout.

The main then meanders all the way around the shed, making mainly left-hand bends as it does so until it comes up to the doorway once more. The main will then circle back upon itself on a large loop, hopefully of about 36†radius and return all the way back to the helix (spiral!). Then up through a few turns of the helix onto the second level and repeat!

 

On each level, the main will be climbing gradually but only between the various towns en-route, as local freight trains will need to be able to switch various industries in each town and not risk cars (wagons!) running away! This should mean a couple of turns less in the helix when going uphill.

As the upper level will need to be rather narrower than the lower level, so one can reach easily, I’m guessing that the upper return loop will have to drop down to about 30†radius again, diesels will be fine of course but my big steam may look rather strange, as 2-6-6-6’s and 2-10-4’s will need gentle curves really! I KNOW they’ll go around those curves, they’ll just look a bit toy train like, sadly.

From the main on the upper level, there will be a couple of branches going off up steeper grades to the coal mines, these will be the summit of the railway and may well need raised platforms to operate from!

 

That then, is a brief description of what this layout will portray. I will be getting some sketches done soon and I hope it makes interesting reading.

Cheers,

John E.

 

 

[shortliner]

Can you hide the loops under scenery and thus not have the odd appearance with the bigger locos?

[Allegheny1600]

Can you hide the loops under scenery and thus not have the odd appearance with the bigger locos?

 

Thanks Jack!

Yes, of course - after all, i have to have somewhere to put the coal mine! Said mine (tipple, actually!) can go over the loop on the upper level and the main can easily and prototypically go into tunnel. Lower level main will be fine at 36", i'm sure.

Cheers,

John E.

 

PS Do i need to do a translation of US (C&O) terms into normal everyday English, i wonder?

[Gene]

Englishmen and their sheds..it's classic

[Allegheny1600]

Englishmen and their sheds..it's classic

 

Ha, ha, ha!! :lol:

Thanks Gene!

It's because we don't have nice big basements like you guys!

Cheers,

John E.

[Gene]

LOLOL...fortunately I don't have a basement....so I have to keep my layout in the closet and set it up on the arms of 2 chairs

I'm actually very partial to the classic English garden shed and yard concept, it has a comforting feel, like the 2 Ronnies or Mince Pies and brandy butter

[shortliner]

John - a little something to inspire you with the layout http://members.ozema....au/~andkeller/ Click on Layout and then (when you've looked at that) click on trackplan - photos are good too for lots of inspiration. and the new MR special "How to build more layout in less space" has an article on Helix building.

Enjoy

[sunshine coast]

Excellent link Jack ...

just goes to prove that it is not space we are short of for layouts ...it is imagination B)

and I shall follow John E and his plans for the railroad with interest ..

 

Regards Trevor...

[shortliner]

Thanks Trev, good to know the old huntin' hound-dawg still has his uses!

[Andrew Peters]

John, this looks like it's going to be hugeB) Will have to follow the build, GOOD LUCK

[scanman]

Hi John

 

Thought I'd repay the visit! 42' x 12'?? Thats not a shed - that's a bungalow! Lokking at the photo's tho' I wonder if it's worth 'biting the bulet' by clearing the existing sheds and putting up a single building divided between you & your wife's hobbies??

 

As to the modelling - I remember Tony Koester's layout well from my spell 'across the pond'. To me there were three 'signature layouts' featured in 'MR' - Tony Koesters Allegheny Midland' , the 'Franklin & South Manchester' and dave Barrow's 'Cat Mountain & Santa Fe'.

 

I'd like to include helices in my design - but at the mo' 10' x 7'6 won't hack it! However, future plans (daydreams) include a 'selfbuild house' with two 30' square basement rooms! Ah well, I can dream..

 

Anyway John - the best of luck, and I'll be following progress!

 

Regards

 

Ian

[F-UnitMad]

Englishmen and their sheds..it's classic

"Gentleman's Activity Bunker", if you'd be so kind, Sir!!

 

Otherwise known as The Last Retreat of the Married Man, as well.....

[Gene]

I stand corrected Sir!

"Gentleman's Activity Bunker", if you'd be so kind, Sir!!

 

Otherwise known as The Last Retreat of the Married Man, as well.....

[Allegheny1600]

He, he!

Thanks guys - the G.A.B. - I like it!

 

Well, one of my friends and I went to visit the NMRA ‘do’ at Kegworth the other Saturday armed with some cash! While I went mad on some New Haven bits and pieces (my current ’fad’!), L. picked up no less than 4 (FOUR!!!) GP38’s, 2 in C&O, 2 in B&O - that’s him fully confirmed as being ’on board’! Now to get D. buying some C&O stock!!! I did get a couple of items by way of the ‘bring & buy’ - just a couple of boxcars and a gondola. My own stock acquisition plan is currently to simply buy it when I see is (C&O stock, that is!).

 

Recently I have had some back troubles, a recurring problem with me, I’m afraid so I have not yet made a start on site clearance but, of course, the weather has now turned rather unpleasant! This leads me to think that I might be unwise to aim for laying the concrete base in the middle of January! It may well be wiser to wait until Spring has thawed the ground out before laying concrete. Still there’s plenty to do in the meantime, shed movements, shed/lean to and greenhouse demolition and a LOT of clearing away! Good job there is a tip just down the road!

 

Cheers,

John E.

[Allegheny1600]

I thought it is probably about time for an update here.

Last weekend, my old layout was collected and is now up in Yorkshire awaiting an extension to be extended(!) before re-assembly (wonder if I'll get to 'help' with that?). The sale of this should pay for (most of?) the track in the new layout, I hope.

It also means that the old shed is now under my wife's keep, I just have a few bits of tidying up to do and one or two walls to repaint as one has to keep ones better half happy!

Then just a few more jobs around the house and it should be in good time to start site clearance - woo-hoo! Hopefully, a few working weekends should do that.

One thing that has been bothering me though.

I do have a distinct weakness for German H0 and have a reasonable collection of stock. I am minded to make the new layout 'adaptable' from US outline to German by making all the buildings, signals etc removeable and replaceable. There will be sufficient fiddle yard space underneath the layout (readily accesible via helix) to be able to perform a reasonable changeover of rolling stock and road vehicles will be pretty easy! Even so, it will be a sufficiently complicated procedure that I could not see it happening more than one full changeover per year.

Apart from track layout, can anyone see any major problems with doing this, please?

Bridges and tunnels of course will be fixed, as will all the scenery but surely, the hills of Appalachia are not too different to those in the Black Forest, are they?

Cheers,

John E.

[Allegheny1600]

Well it seems that plans once, so clear and permanent, certainly have a way of changing!

Not just plans but how one feels about a given subject.

I was once so passionate about the C&O with it's giant articulated steam locos or multiple diesel lash-ups fighting massive coal trains up big mountain grades but it was (pretty much) a one commodity road. While there were other trains, including premier passenger trains, the main purpose of the C&O was to shift coal.

I've realised that I want more than this! Quite what (more) I'm not sure! Probably just having a mix of trains and being able to run two or three 'main commodities'.

I'm struggling to express myself here so this will either be seriously jumbled up or re-written but;

A few weeks ago there was a thread about what would you do if you had to start over. I unhesitatingly wrote that I would do 0 gauge if I lost what I had now in a fire (for example).

That set me thinking!

Why oh, why am I messing around with H0 (& 00) when I know the scale/gauge I love is 0? Several long discussions with my dear wife ensued and it was she who pointed out that if I love 0, then that is the scale I should concentrate on!

Therefore this 'big shed' layout (my "lifetime" layout) should be built in the scale that I love and I should start to sell my smaller stuff off in order to raise funds for this layout.

I also had to decide exactly what to model in 0 scale.

I do posses some British and German 0 scale but I want (need?) to model US outline as that is the kind of operation I want (need?). I love steam locos more than diesel as there is more going on with a steam loco (nothing beats those flashing coupling rods flying up & down and all that motion!).

While I ultimately would like to run big articulated locos, this is not a priority but something to bear in mind.

Many hours surfing later, I found this

and many other similar videos(!) I was in love!

I started to do a lot of research on Espee steam and found that they were still running locals with small(er!) locos right into the mid 1950's AND such locos were available in model form in 0 scale.

Espee it was to be then!

Not too much of a massive surprise though as it was the Espee I first modelled in H0, some 20 odd years ago and I've seen the real thing! Cab forward 4294 at Sacratmento SRM in 1995!

[dave1905]

I wouldn't call the C&O a "one commodity" railroad. They are just most famous for coal, as all the railroads are in that area of the country (B&O, C&O, N&W, SOU, PRR, RDG, P&WV, WM, etc). But they all hauled other things.

[F-UnitMad]

Why oh, why am I messing around with H0 (& 00) when I know the scale/gauge I love is 0? Several long discussions with my dear wife ensued and it was she who pointed out that if I love 0, then that is the scale I should concentrate on!

I do love O Scale myself, as you'll have seen at TVNAM in June... and who needs acres of space for it either..?? Ah.... you probably do, to run articulateds, haha!! Go for it!!

[Allegheny1600]

Well,

Long time no updates so here goes!

I didn't even realise that it was back in August that I decided to change up a scale, my life has been going very rapidly since then and this past couple of months?......Phew!!

Anyway.........., once I'd (pretty much) made up my mind that I wanted to do US 0 scale, serious discussions took place between Mrs E and myself and when the wife says that it's obvious that I should do 0 scale, then I have carte blanche, effectively.

So, initial plans were made, some stock was purchased, things were ticking along nicely with a bit of kit-building and plans started to be enhanced.

This involved a name change to "Sierra north western" to properly reflect the new locale which is now, as stated above, Southern Pacific in the 1950's, in the Sierra's of California, somewhere east of San Francisco! (well, it couldn't be west, could it!?!).

I worked up a decent track-plan for the layout, even going outside and doing a bit of a "Tehachapi" around a rockery but.....

In order to get decent curves in 0 scale, I needed to have a 'duck-under' inside the shed - which (with my back!) is a no-no!

I couldn't change the "theme" of the track-plan as that is the whole point of what I want to model - double deck with loops etc.

I needed a bigger (wider) shed!........

Aha!

Sneaky idea time!

Currently, it's still too early to say exactly what my plans are, they are long term, they may even be impossible to implement but I'm going to try!

So, I will have to satisfy myself with a 'little' portable layout, for which I have permission to use the spare bedroom (when it's redecorated & sorted!) and I will report back here when something actually happens!

Many thanks to all who have commentated on here, it was always to be a long term project and this is just a delay!

Cheers,

John E.