jointline Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 The "Formation and Working of Trains from Paddington" for 1960 lists parcels train(s) 3A02 and 3A32 (depending on day) as having in the consist, amongst other parcels vehicles, "Brake Van (57 or 305)." Can anybody clarify what the 57 and 305 referred to? Were these the running numbers of the vans concerned, and if so what vans were they? I've looked in Michael Harris's GWR Coaches, but the numbers don't seem to tie up with any brake or parcels stock. Also why were these individual vehicles so important? There are other vehicle specific train formations, some specifying certain Siphon G's for example, and some other trains, such as the 10.37 Parcels to Penzance (3C12), also specifies "Brake Van (53, 56, 78 or 119)". Any help much appreciated! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted November 18, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2010 The "Formation and Working of Trains from Paddington" for 1960 lists parcels train(s) 3A02 and 3A32 (depending on day) as having in the consist, amongst other parcels vehicles, "Brake Van (57 or 305)." Can anybody clarify what the 57 and 305 referred to? Were these the running numbers of the vans concerned, and if so what vans were they? I've looked in Michael Harris's GWR Coaches, but the numbers don't seem to tie up with any brake or parcels stock. Also why were these individual vehicles so important? There are other vehicle specific train formations, some specifying certain Siphon G's for example, and some other trains, such as the 10.37 Parcels to Penzance (3C12), also specifies "Brake Van (53, 56, 78 or 119)". Any help much appreciated! If they are the running no's then 53,56 57 & 78 are all K40 diagram parcel full brakes.I know because I'm currently building a Comet kit one. They were built in the early 30s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 If they are the running no's then 53,56 57 & 78 are all K40 diagram parcel full brakes.I know because I'm currently building a Comet kit one. They were built in the early 30s. Thank you, that would match very well! I've tracked the vans down in J H Russell's book, and recognize the type. Looking back at my old photos I see I actually have a picture of one on the (I think) 7.2 p.m. return parcels from Reading to Paddington. It's not a brilliant picture, but I will try to post it over the weekend. The bulge on these vehicles is quite distinctive, especially as it is marshalled next to a (straight sided) Siphon G in the photo. I'd still be interested to know why these specific vehicles were needed on this train, however. They all seem to have disappeared quite early on in the '60's, or maybe I just didn't notice them as much as the Hawksworth vans. Would also be interested to know how you get on with the Comet kit. Would like to do more kit bashing myself, but the final painting and lettering I find a bit daunting! Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 305 was a Hawksworth BG to diagram K45. There, that should boost the sales a bit ... I don't know what the practice was on other Regions or why the Western worked as it did but the GWR and its successor specified very closely which vans and/or types of vans were formed in particular trains. There was a pool of eight Siphons G allocated to the postal between Paddington and Penzance but only three were formed in each train. One was detached at Exeter and found its way to Torrington via Barnstaple. Many of the dedicated vans were branded for their working but I would be very surprised if there were a complete list of brandings. If you can get hold of a "Programme of Working of Coaches and Vans in Through Trains" you will find much more information. From time to time such things are posted in the files section of Robert Carroll's [robertcwp of this parish] BR Coaching Stock Yahoo group. Printed copies are about as abundant as rocking horse manure! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 305 was a Hawksworth BG to diagram K45. There, that should boost the sales a bit ... I don't know what the practice was on other Regions or why the Western worked as it did but the GWR and its successor specified very closely which vans and/or types of vans were formed in particular trains. There was a pool of eight Siphons G allocated to the postal between Paddington and Penzance but only three were formed in each train. One was detached at Exeter and found its way to Torrington via Barnstaple. Many of the dedicated vans were branded for their working but I would be very surprised if there were a complete list of brandings. If you can get hold of a "Programme of Working of Coaches and Vans in Through Trains" you will find much more information. From time to time such things are posted in the files section of Robert Carroll's [robertcwp of this parish] BR Coaching Stock Yahoo group. Printed copies are about as abundant as rocking horse manure! Chris The Southern, pre-Nationalisation, also allocated particular vans to cyclical diagrams- however, judging by how their vans were to be found around the UK in later years, they didn't continue with this practice. The WR persisted in labelling their NPCCS for particular workings well into the 1970s- apart from the Siphon Gs with boards on, there was a blue Stanier 50' BG labelled 'For Use on West-of-England Newspaper Trains Only' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted November 19, 2010 Author Share Posted November 19, 2010 305 was a Hawksworth BG to diagram K45. There, that should boost the sales a bit ... I don't know what the practice was on other Regions or why the Western worked as it did but the GWR and its successor specified very closely which vans and/or types of vans were formed in particular trains. There was a pool of eight Siphons G allocated to the postal between Paddington and Penzance but only three were formed in each train. One was detached at Exeter and found its way to Torrington via Barnstaple. Many of the dedicated vans were branded for their working but I would be very surprised if there were a complete list of brandings. If you can get hold of a "Programme of Working of Coaches and Vans in Through Trains" you will find much more information. From time to time such things are posted in the files section of Robert Carroll's [robertcwp of this parish] BR Coaching Stock Yahoo group. Printed copies are about as abundant as rocking horse manure! Chris Looking a bit like this, maybe? Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Photographs of Diag K45 in maroon http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p24431442.html and blue as internal user http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p24431435.html Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 19, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2010 The "Formation and Working of Trains from Paddington" for 1960 lists parcels train(s) 3A02 and 3A32 (depending on day) as having in the consist, amongst other parcels vehicles, "Brake Van (57 or 305)." Can anybody clarify what the 57 and 305 referred to? Were these the running numbers of the vans concerned, and if so what vans were they? I've looked in Michael Harris's GWR Coaches, but the numbers don't seem to tie up with any brake or parcels stock. Also why were these individual vehicles so important? There are other vehicle specific train formations, some specifying certain Siphon G's for example, and some other trains, such as the 10.37 Parcels to Penzance (3C12), also specifies "Brake Van (53, 56, 78 or 119)". Any help much appreciated! They were definitely vehicle running numbers but they might not have been branded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted November 20, 2010 Author Share Posted November 20, 2010 If they are the running no's then 53,56 57 & 78 are all K40 diagram parcel full brakes.I know because I'm currently building a Comet kit one. They were built in the early 30s. RE: K40'S etc. I have trawled my negatives and found this, not very good one, of the evening Reading to Paddington parcels train just outside Hayes in the early sixties. This was taken around eight o'clock in the evening, and on slowish film, which accounts for the poor quality. The second van looks very like a K40, followed by a couple of Siphon Gs. The first vehicle was a bit of an oddity, as it appears to be an LMS brake coach adapted for parcels work. I have a couple of snaps of it on local parcel's workings. Perhaps the more knowledgeable about LMS stock could provide further info? Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 My Collet full brake I think diagrma K.40 Comet sides on a Hornby B set. Chalk marks courtesy of Modelmasters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted November 21, 2010 Author Share Posted November 21, 2010 My Collet full brake I think diagrma K.40 Comet sides on a Hornby B set. Chalk marks courtesy of Modelmasters Nice one! Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 If you are making a K40 be careful with your numbers as some of the K40's had offset gangways at one end only, from their previous use in the Great Western TPO trains. This enabed centre gangway stock to be used with the net vehicles with all gangways connected. Numbers to avoid are 39, 81 & 1177. MW Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 If you are making a K40 be careful with your numbers as some of the K40's had offset gangways at one end only, from their previous use in the Great Western TPO trains. This enabed centre gangway stock to be used with the net vehicles with all gangways connected. Numbers to avoid are 39, 81 & 1177. MW Thanks, always useful to know the right numbers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 ... Also why were these individual vehicles so important? ... That suggests to me a functional purpose. Something like a safe, lock up or purpose designed stowage of the right size for a regular traffic on the route. Basically ensuring that the train staff would always have the necessary facilities to handle the traffic likely to be presented. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 The first vehicle was a bit of an oddity, as it appears to be an LMS brake coach adapted for parcels work. I have a couple of snaps of it on local parcel's workings. Perhaps the more knowledgeable about LMS stock could provide further info? Could it be one of these? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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