How to Unload Bulk Wagons at Breweries and Creameries?

[M.I.B]

How was unloading of grain hoppers done at major breweries? (1940s - ish) Some sort of ash pit with a conveyor underneath, or do they go up some sort of slope and drop like a coal drop?

 

Same goes for creameries and dairies - by gravity drop into subterranean tanks, or into pipelines and suction pumped into the plant (a bit like a modern tanker unload siding at an airport)?

 

I plan to have both a creamery and a brewery and would like to attempt realistic modelling of unloading facilities.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Chubber]

Have a look through this site, the answer may well be there...

 

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/index.htm

 

 

Good luck,

 

Doug

[hmrspaul]

How was unloading of grain hoppers done at major breweries? (1940s - ish) Some sort of ash pit with a conveyor underneath, or do they go up some sort of slope and drop like a coal drop?

 

 

I don't know about breweries but at granaries they unloaded in the way you suggest, by gravity into a pit served by a conveyor.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Fat Controller]

Milk tanks for one London bottling plant, adjacent to Vauxhall station, were unloaded by attaching a flexible hose to the outlet valve. The hose snaked across the platform, before dropping through what looked like a skylight above the station buildings, which were at a lower level. This was done using one of the Up Windsor lines, after the morning peak had finished- once the tanks had been unloaded, the train ran into the carriage sidings at Waterloo to run round (these were where Waterloo International now stands)

[M.I.B]

Many thanks to all. I will buy another PECO ash-pit kit for my brewery and make a manifold and hose system for the creamery.

[Wheeltapper]

Milk tanks for one London bottling plant, adjacent to Vauxhall station, were unloaded by attaching a flexible hose to the outlet valve. The hose snaked across the platform, before dropping through what looked like a skylight above the station buildings, which were at a lower level. This was done using one of the Up Windsor lines, after the morning peak had finished- once the tanks had been unloaded, the train ran into the carriage sidings at Waterloo to run round (these were where Waterloo International now stands)

 

 

The flexible hose and pumps method is still used today for road tankers offloading at bottling or other milk processing plants with the milk going into large storage silos prior to being pasturised.

 

As a matter of interest tankers need to be cleaned and sterilised as soon as possible after offloading with a minimum of a clean water rinse and ideally a full C. I.P clean which consists of a cold clean water prerinse , a hot chemical sterilisation wash and an after rinse which takes on average 45minutes per tanker to complete . For Vauxhall where would this have been done ? . Was there a dedicated plant or did they have a unit at the carriage sidings ?

[petee19]

Milk tanks for one London bottling plant, adjacent to Vauxhall station, were unloaded by attaching a flexible hose to the outlet valve. The hose snaked across the platform, before dropping through what looked like a skylight above the station buildings, which were at a lower level. This was done using one of the Up Windsor lines, after the morning peak had finished- once the tanks had been unloaded, the train ran into the carriage sidings at Waterloo to run round (these were where Waterloo International now stands)

 

I have just come across this picture of Vauxhall Stations milk discharge.

 

Pete.

[Oldddudders]

The story I was told at the time - and these things circulated long before the Internet had its own myths! - was that the tanks were cleaned by men in special suits climbing inside, hose in hand. Looking at the size of the aperture at the top of the tank, that might be feasible.

 

This link provides more general info about tanks to Vauxhall, but not too much more about how they were discharged and cleaned.

 

http://www.svsfilm.com/nineelms/torr.htm

[Fat Controller]

And a very nice photo of a Stove R....

[M.I.B]

Beautiful photo. Many thanks.

[petee19]

A couple more photographs of milk terminals.

 

The first is Morden,followed by West Ealing

 

Pete.

[scanman]

Don't forget the 'umble milk churn - still in use in the '40's. Another area worth modelling at breweries is the 'returned barrels area' - how to hide loadsa empty space.

 

Full barrels were often shipped in 'opens', and passed under water sprays as they left the brewery. Known (apparently) as 'sparging' ,it was designed to keep the beer cool. Not for long tho' one suspects! One of the 'real' railway mags ran a very good article on the Burton Breweries a few years ago - might have been 'BRILL' or 'railway bylines'.

 

Regs

 

Ian

 

 

[M.I.B]

I haven't for gotten churns and barrels. When I am in my local model shop I often chuck a blister pack of barrels or churns or crates in with whatever it was I went in there for.

 

Thanks to a fellow RM webber I have a photo of a grain discharge system from 73, but we are agreed that because we don't know who has copy right, we won't post it. I will however start a drawing soon.

 

It's not high tech and the 1973 solution was probably the same as the 1943 solution. Under each grain wagon is a fixed hopper about 12" tall with a 12" x 12" square open top, which feeds into a 6" pipe running along the length of the track. The pipe is at sleeper level. These collector hoppers are spaced to fit under the centre of each grain wagon. Inside the pipe is a screw conveyor which drags the grain off to some sort of intermediate station. This level of detail we can't see in the photo, but as we are both engineers we seem to have "guessed the rest".

 

At this transfer point ( still under the rake of grain wagons) the grain goes into a larger diameter screw conveyor ( "X" times the diameter of the initial pipe because it is drawing from multiple hoppers and thinner pipes). This pipe is perpendicular to the track and terminates at the bottom of your choice of grain elevator (belt, screw etc).

 

My hybrid will start with the PECO ash pit kit, and will cope with 3 grain wagons at a time. 3 mini hoppers with a small pipe going into 2 "machinery spaces" made from chequer plate. One fat pipe will lead off to the brewery, with an inspection manhole (Square of chequer plate) between the 2 tracks I have planned. (The grain discharge has a "finished goods out" siding between it and the brewery).

[Chubber]

I'm interested in this 'unloading' business, sorry for the slight OT, but can anyone point me at 1930-40 oil unloading link [for small local service] and, here's the hard one, the gubbins associated with asphalt tanks, [heating pipes, stationary boiler or loco steam??]

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Doug

[hmrspaul]

I'm interested in this 'unloading' business, sorry for the slight OT, but can anyone point me at 1930-40 oil unloading link [for small local service] and, here's the hard one, the gubbins associated with asphalt tanks, [heating pipes, stationary boiler or loco steam??]

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Doug

Doug

 

This book should be able to help you http://www.hmrs.org.uk/books/bookdetails.php?bookid=1021

 

Paul Bartlett

[PhilJ W]

Back in the 60/70's I lived close to the Romford Brewery of Ind Coopes. For the return of empty barrels they used standard BR cattle wagons marked up 'Empty Barrels Only' IIRC having no reference were they were used to or from. These wagons were probably no longer required for cattle. The rail traffic to the Brewery ceased about 1974 (give or take a couple of years.)

[Fat Controller]

Back in the 60/70's I lived close to the Romford Brewery of Ind Coopes. For the return of empty barrels they used standard BR cattle wagons marked up 'Empty Barrels Only' IIRC having no reference were they were used to or from. These wagons were probably no longer required for cattle. The rail traffic to the Brewery ceased about 1974 (give or take a couple of years.)

There were some which had the open bit at the top of the sides planked up, which were even branded 'Ale'- I think these may have even been displaced from Cornish brocolli traffic, rather than having come out of livestock traffic.

[Shamouti Ben Yafo]

Could it be that the former broccoli carriers were GWR (pattern) Fruit vans? The first of these were said to have been converted from cattle wagons by boarding up the upper side areas and fitting new doors.

 

Cattle wagons converted into Ale vans don't seem to have been much altered - perhaps the partition was removed, but it looks as though they were just marked ALE. I've also seen (fresh) Meat and Insulated vans so marked - I think both were in one of David Larkin's books.

[PhilJ W]

They were marked 'empty cask' and had no noticeable alterations.

[M.I.B]

The GW ALE wagons had partitioning removed in all cases. In some cases the side doors were altered, but no all cases. Most were still open to the elements via the slats in the upper half. They wereused for full and empty casks.

[Fat Controller]

Could it be that the former broccoli carriers were GWR (pattern) Fruit vans? The first of these were said to have been converted from cattle wagons by boarding up the upper side areas and fitting new doors.

 

Cattle wagons converted into Ale vans don't seem to have been much altered - perhaps the partition was removed, but it looks as though they were just marked ALE. I've also seen (fresh) Meat and Insulated vans so marked - I think both were in one of David Larkin's books.

They were former cattle wagons, noticeably longer than the 'Fruit A'- one reason for using them would have been the door arrangement, which enabled casks to be rolled during loading and unloading. The partitions were moveable, and thus also fairly easy to remove entirely. I've seen the photos of both Insulated and Fresh Meat vans as well- at least one of the lattr had all the end vents apart from the top one removed.

[Chubber]

Doug

 

This book should be able to help you http://www.hmrs.org....php?bookid=1021

 

Paul Bartlett

 

Thanks for that, Paul, it looks very useful, next time I'm in UK I'll search my usual haunts or look on the web.

 

Doug

[hmrspaul]

Thanks for that, Paul, it looks very useful, next time I'm in UK I'll search my usual haunts or look on the web.

 

Doug

Oh that is disappointing, The HMRS is a charity trying to provide some service to all of us. Why not buy direct?

 

Paul Bartlett

[Shamouti Ben Yafo]

Doug

 

This book should be able to help you http://www.hmrs.org.uk/books/bookdetails.php?bookid=1021

 

Paul Bartlett

 

Hmmm... Almost bought this until I realised that they mis-spelled 'Ale'.

[Chubber]

Oh that is disappointing, The HMRS is a charity trying to provide some service to all of us. Why not buy direct?

 

Paul Bartlett

 

Sorry to disappoint you, Paul, but buying 'new' books is a luxury I don't often subscribe to, I wish that it were otherwise.

 

 

Doug