BlackRat Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Nipped into the loft today to get down the Christmas lights as had a spare 30 mins and wanted to make sure they all work. Good job I did, one half of the loft for some reason has been affected by condensation which was raining down on all the stored empty boxes of my stock! Literally hundreds of boxes damp, with some soaking wet and beyond saving! Got them all down, all over the house at the mo but desperately trying to salvage them. All those ltd editions etc! Nightmare! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted November 28, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2010 That's bad news. I hope you manage to salvage everything ok. Have you had any insulation work done since last winter? When we first moved into our house the loft suffered from the same problem and it was because the insulation had been laid right into the sofits, resulting in no air flow. Once I cleared a few inches round the outside of the loft the problem went away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Either poor air circulation as already described, or a significant flow of warm air (carrying moisture) or water vapour into the loft from the house. If there is no cold room under the loft, then it could be your central heating system vent pipe that is the source. Seen this happen some years ago to a neighbour ; the return temperature sensor on his (very basic and dated) central heating system failed and as a result the circuit was at near boling point. The header tank/overflow receiver was like a hot bath, and the water vapour from this was condensing all over the inside of the cold roof (temperatures below freezing similar to present).. No amount of ventilation would have prevented that condensation! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Either poor air circulation as already described, or a significant flow of warm air (carrying moisture) or water vapour into the loft from the house. If there is no cold room under the loft, then it could be your central heating system vent pipe that is the source. Seen this happen some years ago to a neighbour ; the return temperature sensor on his (very basic and dated) central heating system failed and as a result the circuit was at near boling point. The header tank/overflow receiver was like a hot bath, and the water vapour from this was condensing all over the inside of the cold roof (temperatures below freezing similar to present).. No amount of ventilation would have prevented that condensation! I had a similar problem of hot water getting into the CH header tank, causing massive amounts of condensation. I have since fitted a new heating system and removed the water tanks from my loft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Graff Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Very unfortunate, and the exact reason why I use plastic containers with lids to store my stuff in (+ that it is also safe from critters of all sorts!). But as is written above, there must be some strange ventilation issue at work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share Posted November 28, 2010 Think we have sussed it thanks to you guys! A few months ago I did notice the header tank was very hot and steaming! We are awaiting a new combi installation at some time in the near future. I have 'boxed in' the header tank now and wrapped it in insulation to try and resolve the issue for now. Most boxes have been saved, if slightly out of shape but its not as bad as it could have been. Looking at the rockwool, the top surface appears mouldy so going to have to change it all, prob this weekend. Funnily enough its only on one half so I guess the air circulation must be doing something up there! No idea what tho! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 I invested in a small de-humidifier some years ago when suffering the same problem - well worth the cost. Putting your models inside large packing case boxes (those that removal & storage firms sell) is also worthwhile as this keeps the model boxes from direct contact with atmosphere and dust / dirt etc. Hope you manage to salvage everything Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted November 29, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 29, 2010 Plastic box idea VG. Will be checking my loft today as I have had some condensation problems before. Thanks for the reminder, however I'm sorry you had the problem. 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 The return-water thermostat may well be the culprit here. On many boilers this is the big knob on the front. In this cold weather, it is tempting to turn this up, but it won't increase the power of the boiler. Set too hot, it will cause condensation in the loft (as above), set too low it will make the heating system cycle on/off too frequently, resulting in lower efficiency and wear and tear on the boiler. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 If you seriously have got mould on the insulation, and are changing it, make absolutely sure respirators are worn to protect from the mould and dust. The conditions could have caused an infectious mould, and it is better to be safe than sorry. It is pretty certain it is the ventilation at the heart of the problem,. A small fan could be added to aid the flow. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseman Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 WARNING this can be very dangerous some systems allow hot water to be back pumped into the tank and at least 2 people have been killed by scalding water rupturing a plastic tank i would get a pulmber to fit a non return valve straght away regards houseman Think we have sussed it thanks to you guys! A few months ago I did notice the header tank was very hot and steaming! We are awaiting a new combi installation at some time in the near future. I have 'boxed in' the header tank now and wrapped it in insulation to try and resolve the issue for now. Most boxes have been saved, if slightly out of shape but its not as bad as it could have been. Looking at the rockwool, the top surface appears mouldy so going to have to change it all, prob this weekend. Funnily enough its only on one half so I guess the air circulation must be doing something up there! No idea what tho! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Yes, Houseman, a non-return valve in the FEED pipe FROM the header tank TO the circuit may be adviseable, but a far more likely cause is steam / hot water coming up the VENT pipe FROM the circuit TO the header tank, and any restriction in this pipe is a big no-no! (or KA-BOOM!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 I had an incidence of this last year although it wasn't too damaging, only totalling some plastic kit boxes. I've installed some insulating bubble wrap under ply in the working space, but left the sub-baseboard levels open to allow throughflow of air. Throughout the period in question, the loft had been closed to the remainder of the house and it was a period of extreme cold, rather like the current one. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 A hot water cylinder filling with steam in an overheating system with a blocked vent pipe, and exploding, would have the potential to demolish the top floor of a house, plus most of the roof, and propel itself, or bits thereof, several hundred feet into the air. I think steam expands to about 1600 times its original volume in a very short space of time when released. The vent pipe is extremely important, but at the same time it can become a pain when there is a constant flow of hot water entering the tank due to a restriction in the flow somewhere else in the system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseman Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 no need to shout that is why i said get a plumber ther is no need to be rude http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jan/08/uknews4.mainsection http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1434588/Woman-killed-by-boiling-water-pouring-on-to-bed.html Yes, Houseman, a non-return valve in the FEED pipe FROM the header tank TO the circuit may be adviseable, but a far more likely cause is steam / hot water coming up the VENT pipe FROM the circuit TO the header tank, and any restriction in this pipe is a big no-no! (or KA-BOOM!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Housman, my apologies if my post appeared rude. My intention was not to shout at you but to point out clearly to others reading the thread that there are two pipes linking the header tank to the circuit, and to stress their different purposes. I agree that anyone in doubt should use a professional plumber. My concern was that an amateur might put a NRV in the wrong pipe and hold us responsible when their house came down around their ears. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod6 Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 no need to shout Housman, my apologies if my post appeared rude. My intention was not to shout at you but to point out clearly to others reading the thread A genuine misunderstanding there I think, but it does again highlight the problems we have sometimes in getting the right meaning and nuances across Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseman Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 no probs steve i think we both want the best regards houseman Housman, my apologies if my post appeared rude. My intention was not to shout at you but to point out clearly to others reading the thread that there are two pipes linking the header tank to the circuit, and to stress their different purposes. I agree that anyone in doubt should use a professional plumber. My concern was that an amateur might put a NRV in the wrong pipe and hold us responsible when their house came down around their ears. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted December 3, 2010 Author Share Posted December 3, 2010 New boiler arrives tomorrow, fingers crossed thats the end of it! I hope so! Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted December 3, 2010 Share Posted December 3, 2010 You were lucky as it could have been much worse.Hopefully the end of the problem is at hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted December 3, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2010 Recentlymoved into a new Bungalow found the Central heating water was circulating via the tank. Flowing out of the vent pipe into the header tank. The vent pipe off take was on the same pipe as the feed from the tank but on the boiler side. The pump was drawing from the feed side. Bad layout god knows how long it has been like that. Moved the feed to the return pipe instead problem solved. Sometimes raising the vent pipe can solve it. I advise anyone with a header tank to check this is not occuring apart from wasting heat the moisture can cause rot in the roof. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted December 4, 2010 Author Share Posted December 4, 2010 Plumbers here (two of sons mates!) so getting a good rate and a good job done! Mind you, run out of bacon already! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlink Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I think you are all very lucky, around ten years ago with a simular problem with central heating expansion tank a friend came round to fix it & after doing a bit of soldering of pipes had to pop outside for some more pipe. At this stage I put the kettle on for a cuppa while he went back up to the loft. Next thing loads of shouting! GET THE FIRE BRIGADE the lofts on fire. End result loft totally gutted around £40,000 of damage half roof gone & around £13,000 of model railways incinerated!. At the time I was gutted but out of the ashes the Phoenix has risen. I was lucky to have a good insurance company (Norwich Union) who paid out in full. They would't give me the money for the railway instead I got a £13,000 credit with Rails of Sheffield so spent a lot of time visiting Sheffield replacing my lost models. Also ended up with new loft which is much better than it ever was before. Seems when soldering the blowtorch had touched on something inflamable under the boards & the updraught from below set everthing alight. cheers Ian H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted December 5, 2010 Author Share Posted December 5, 2010 Blimey Ian! Not sure whether to say bad luck but at the time, it must have been a nightmare! Luckily its only boxes, and only a few at that. BUT, I will have to replace all the insulation etc this week as well. Luckily we have been meaning to change the bolier for a couple of years and were just 'waiting to get on with it!' Sons school/rugby mates are well on with it and doing a great job. In a society when youngsters arent always appreciated its nice to see them working hard, doing a good job, politely, courteously and with a lot of skill. Mind you they have ate their weight in bacon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 New boiler arrives tomorrow, fingers crossed thats the end of it! I hope so! Neil New boiler on old pipework? Might be best to flush and descale. I found a bucket full of black sludge and about a handfull of scale chips when I did it. On the flush, put a hosepipe down the feed and later the return to back flush leaving the drain valve open. It took an hour to run clear in a four bedroom house and improved the efficiency of the system by about 25% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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