RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted December 8, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2010 Ok, I think I've cracked it... You should be able to see that all three discs at column 13 are locked when the stop signal is off. Hopefully everything else is in order... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 8, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2010 Does SigScribe not provide Both Ways locking for points in the rear of a signal showing a proceed aspect? I would expect to see 4 and 5 locked, whichever position they were lying, in when 9 is cleared. The only exception to this would be if the locking prevented a permissible parallel move, not the case here, when I would expect some conditional locking to be provided if points were not track circuited. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted December 9, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2010 Does SigScribe not provide Both Ways locking for points in the rear of a signal showing a proceed aspect? Yes it does, but I was so pleased at having finally cracked how to interlock the stop signal and opposing discs that it kind of slipped my mind... didn't have time last night to correct the omission... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 9, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2010 Yes it does, but I was so pleased at having finally cracked how to interlock the stop signal and opposing discs that it kind of slipped my mind... didn't have time last night to correct the omission... Sounds like it could be a decent programme then. I had a quick look at their website and it seems pretty good on the basics, I will look in more depth later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted December 9, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2010 I think this should be the final iteration; I'm definitely getting the hang of this... Turnouts now locked in either setting when exit signal is off... In this view everything bar No.1 disc is locked by the exit signal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Singpoint Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 [quote In this view everything bar No.1 disc is locked by the exit signal. [/size] Wot, No sequential locking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted December 9, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2010 Wot, No sequential locking Your quote isn't quoting anything... But anyway, it's as sequential as it needs to be. You cannot set up a conflicting move, and levers have to be moved in the right order. Or sequentially... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Your quote isn't quoting anything... But anyway, it's as sequential as it needs to be. You cannot set up a conflicting move, and levers have to be moved in the right order. Or sequentially... Sequential Locking means signals 1,2 or 3 can't be pulled off with No9 signal OFF. It may not be fitted, one of the jobs I worked, the Siding disc could be cleared with the Starter OFF. Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted December 9, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2010 Sequential Locking means signals 1,2 or 3 can't be pulled off with No9 signal OFF. It may not be fitted, one of the jobs I worked, the Siding disc could be cleared with the Starter OFF. Mick Nicholson. Ok, I understand Mick, thanks. Having now tried, it doesn't appear to be possible with SigScribe. I think someone else may have suggested as much, but as you pointed out, in this scenario it's not entirely necessary anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Ok, I understand Mick, thanks. Having now tried, it doesn't appear to be possible with SigScribe. I think someone else may have suggested as much, but as you pointed out, in this scenario it's not entirely necessary anyway. To do it mechanicaly you need a bevel or ramped lock and a lifting tappet. Today it is done electricaly with lever locks. No doubt with a little work the suitable mechanical bits could be added to a sigscribe frame. Certainly lifting tappets can be employed on a model frame. Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted December 9, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2010 To do it mechanicaly you need a bevel or ramped lock and a lifting tappet. Today it is done electricaly with lever locks. No doubt with a little work the suitable mechanical bits could be added to a sigscribe frame. Lifting tappets can be employed on a model frame. Mick Nicholson. ws I really must learn not to be so hasty... I've figured out how to acheive the sequential locking. With No.9 off it is now not possible to pull1, 2 or 3, and similarly if 1, 2, or 3 are pulled, then it is not possible to pull 9. Erm, I'm fairly certain I've tested all scenarios now... I'll go through it again a few times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 9, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2010 With No.9 off it is now not possible to pull1, 2 or 3, and similarly if 1, 2, or 3 are pulled, then it is not possible to pull 9. I think you need to be able to pull 9 if 1,2 or 3 are off - how else does a train depart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 9, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2010 I really must learn not to be so hasty... I've figured out how to acheive the sequential locking. With No.9 off it is now not possible to pull1, 2 or 3, and similarly if 1, 2, or 3 are pulled, then it is not possible to pull 9. Erm, I'm fairly certain I've tested all scenarios now... I'll go through it again a few times. I think you were right the first time - Sigscribe/Modratec doesn't include sequential locking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 I think you need to be able to pull 9 if 1,2 or 3 are off - how else does a train depart It looks to me you have "Dead Locked" 1,2,and 3 to 9 and obviously by the nature of mechanical locking the converse. As Beast says, now not possible for a train to depart. Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted December 9, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2010 Oh dear! Thanks gentlemen, your knowledge is much appreciated. Hopefully some of it is rubbing off... Have returned the design to its previous state. You were right, of course! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 9, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2010 Wot, No sequential locking The main purpose of Sequential Locking is to prevent a second train being let into a Block Section because the signalman didn't replace the Starter after a train had passed. To give Line Clear to the box in the rear, the Home Signal had to be proved On and its lever Normal. To clear the Home Signal then required the Starting Signal to be On and its lever locked Normal. There should be no Deadlocking between 1/2/3 and 9. As your scenario is a freight line on the LM in the late steam / early diesel era, don't even think about sequential locking, because the 1:1 railway wouldn't have done. On a double track line like that you would have been lucky to find a Line Clear release on the Starter, let alone anything else. In the case of a single line, the Starter lever would be electrically released by the Single Line Token being withdrawn from the instrument . If it was 'One Diesel in Oil' there probably would not even have been a Starter. In the 1970's I did a programme of fitting Home Normal controls, Line Clear releases and Sequential Locking to a large number of boxes on the LMR covering Midland, LNW and GW lines, including on passenger lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Sequential Locking the bevelled locks and lifting tappets are shown in one of the attached drawings. The other drawings may be of interest to some of you. Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grovenor Posted December 10, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 10, 2010 In the 1970's I did a programme of fitting Home Normal controls, Line Clear releases and Sequential Locking to a large number of boxes on the LMR covering Midland, LNW and GW lines, including on passenger lines. We have certainly come a long way from an oversignalled inglenook haveen't we. Anyone interested in LM block controls will find some info here. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted December 10, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2010 We have certainly come a long way from an oversignalled inglenook haveen't we. Anyone interested in LM block controls will find some info here. Keith I realise that as a stand-alone installation this would be over-cooking it for an inglenook; the idea was perhaps to portray it as part of a larger installation, enabling me to provide more interest in operation and construction (I'm building everything bar the locos from kits or scratch.) And I'd also hopefully learn something in the process..... ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Singpoint Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 And I'd also hopefully learn something in the process..... ! I think you should be congratulated on your efforts to date and it is very pleasing to see someone wanting to take an interest in the subject. I have over 30 years (and still going) experience in railway signalling and yet I still manage to learn something new so don't feel daunted by the prospect. This time without an empty quote. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 The attached drawing, (Fig 173) probably represents the ultimate of what can be achieved with mechanical locking. The text explains. Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted December 13, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2010 Some fascinating info posted here, thanks Mick; I suspect there may well be those who have built model locking frames with this type of interlocking incorporated, fortunately I don't think I'll be needing to make use of it for my project! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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