RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 5, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5, 2011 Back in July 2010 at the 2mm show Two MM Locomotives announced that they would be producing their first loco kit. It all went quiet until now and they have given prices and dates that they hope the kit will be available from. The loco is the Midland 1P loco Link to companies website I don't know if you could convert it for n gauge running (wheels might be an issue). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Back in July 2010 at the 2mm show Two MM Locomotives announced that they would be producing their first loco kit. It all went quiet until now and they have given prices and dates that they hope the kit will be available from. The loco is the Midland 1P loco Link to companies website I don't know if you could convert it for n gauge running (wheels might be an issue). If it would fit on the Dapol M7 chassis, then yes, you could. Otherwise... Not really. The problem is that nobody - let me repeat that nobody makes locomotive driving wheels for N gauge. Some people have managed to get wheels directly from Graham Farish, but those are really only spares. I eMailed PECO to try and get a couple of sets of Collett goods wheels, and never heard back. You see, nobody (apparantly) builds chassis in N, or feels the urge to improve some of the older locos out there (the ones with solid non-see-through wheels) in N either. The people who would, it seems, have moved over to 2mm scale rather than N. Whether this is because the people who are prepared to do these things are more likely to want a more accurate scale, or because you can't do it in N is a good question. I'll shut up now. [As you may have guessed, this is a pet peeve of mine] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan-Leeds Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 If it was n gauge id have a couple as these engines worked the Worth valley brank and i wish to model oakworth in the pre preservation era Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I've done a bit of checking, and with 5'4" driving wheels, the 2228 class could, theoretically use the wheels from the Farish 3MT tank engine. So, the thing to do is to find someone who's fitting new wheels to theirs because they're converting it to 2mm finescale, and ask if you can have 2 pairs... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 10, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just a quick update on this one. There are some images of the loco under construction on the blog of the company see here. Looks rather nice. It's way outside of my region but I'm still tempted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted February 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2011 Converting this loco to N is not realy practical. As has already been noted there are no wheels available primarily because there is no market. If you are going to go to the trouble of building a chassis why on earth would you do it in such a course scale - it has nothing to do with the scale being more accurate its that the quality of running in 2FS is so much better, the track and wheel standards match. Secondly, the chasis is designed for split axle pickup which is standard in 2FS, using Farish wheels would therefore involve a major rethink of how the chassis is built. Finaly, the loco body will almost certainly be designed to be as near scale as possible meaning that fat N gauge wheels will not fit the splashers. The much smaller back to back would also mean that the motor would no longer sit so low on the frames as designed. The answer is build it in 2FS - you know it makes sense Jerry http://www.jerrycliffordmodels.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The problem is that nobody - let me repeat that nobody makes locomotive driving wheels for N gauge. You see, nobody (apparantly) builds chassis in N, or feels the urge to improve some of the older locos out there (the ones with solid non-see-through wheels) in N either. I don't doubt they're very difficult to source but are you sure about that? Presumably the RTR manufacturers get them from somewhere (I doubt they make them themselves), and wasn't there once someone who used to build quality N (9mm) gauge locos to order on a commercial basis (Greenwood?) - so where did he get his wheels from? I think there are some people who do try to improve the older steamy N gauge locos but draw the line at changing the wheels as a result of the difficulty (in undertaking as well as sourcing?). They tend to concentrate on improving the fidelity and detail. Perhaps one source is to rummage through all the secondhand stuff that the NGS has at one of the events its shop attends, although I guess a lot will be the older solid back wheels. BTW I'm after a Pannier tank chassis for a kit I'm building but I'm happy to settle for the solid back wheels so long as it's the later Bachmann type with finer profile darkened wheels. They seem to go for extortionate prices on ebay. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted February 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't doubt they're very difficult to source but are you sure about that? Presumably the RTR manufacturers get them from somewhere (I doubt they make them themselves), and wasn't there once someone who used to build quality N (9mm) gauge locos to order on a commercial basis (Greenwood?) - so where did he get his wheels from? Hi Grahame, you're right, John Greenwood used to make 2mm locos to order, some of which were built to run on N gauge 9mm track. He used Mike Bryant wheels when he could get them or made his own. They almost all used the standard 2FS system of split axle pickup. Drop me an email I may be able to help you with the pannier chassis, I think I may have one somewhere. Will you be at Trainwest Melksham with Basingstoke? John Greenwood is hopefully coming up for the weekend from Cornwall and we are helping as guest operators. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2mm Dabbler Posted February 10, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2011 Regarding sources for N gauge wheels I believe Fleischmann wheels can be separately obtained, certainly they are here in Oz though that supplier is of little relevance for UK modellers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't doubt they're very difficult to source but are you sure about that? Presumably the RTR manufacturers get them from somewhere (I doubt they make them themselves), and wasn't there once someone who used to build quality N (9mm) gauge locos to order on a commercial basis (Greenwood?) - so where did he get his wheels from? Alright Logically there must be somebody who makes them. It's unlikely that whoever makes them for Dapol or Farish would be interested in dealing with the public. I've got a couple of leads from the 3mm society website that I've been too busy to follow up... I've just had too much on my workbench. And I never thought I'd be saying that. I'm wondering how hard it could be to make your own. Apart from a lathe... maybe with a way to link it to a Mac, that'd do for the tyres, and maybe 3d printing for the hubs? With regard to 2mm finescale... Well, if I wouldn't have to rip up all my track to go over... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 2mmMark Posted February 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2011 There are some folk who have built chassis using 2mm FS wheels set to an appropriate dimension to run on N gauge track. It's not a complete answer as there's a risk of the narrow treads dropping into the flangeway gaps in N gauge pointwork. From memory, I believe they may have been 0-6-0s which are to a certain extent, self supporting over a longer wheelbase. An 0-4-4 will be inherently less stable in this sort of situation unless made as a rigid 0-4-2-2. The wheels used in commercial chassis are more than likely made in the same Chinese factories that produce the rest of the loco, or possibly locally subcontracted elsewhere in China. I doubt if it's an economic proposition for either Dapol or Bachmann to run a spares scheme to supply these in the small quantities demanded by the limited number of N scale scratchbuilders. Beaver used to do a range of N gauge loco wheels. These had moulded see-through centres with nickel silver rims. I had a set which came from an early Langley 14xx & Autocoach kit. They were actually quite nice wheels, being fairly accurate. It's possible that modern production methods might make similar wheels easier to produce (CNC rims, CAD produced moulds for the centres) but the major cost will be in assembly and again the market is limited. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Beaver used to do a range of N gauge loco wheels. These had moulded see-through centres with nickel silver rims. I had a set which came from an early Langley 14xx & Autocoach kit. They were actually quite nice wheels, being fairly accurate. ABS should still have the tooling for these but you'd have to buy them off Adrian and I suspect run them using a hand machine and machine the tyres then I believe inject into them. Fun for all the family if you are crazy enough. Another approach might be to try 3D printing the wheel centres but again you'll need to make the tyres. It's certainly possible to do wheels small scale - witness the supplies of 3mm RP25 wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 ABS should still have the tooling for these but you'd have to buy them off Adrian and I suspect run them using a hand machine and machine the tyres then I believe inject into them. Fun for all the family if you are crazy enough. Another approach might be to try 3D printing the wheel centres but again you'll need to make the tyres. It's certainly possible to do wheels small scale - witness the supplies of 3mm RP25 wheels. Of course its possible. The question is whether it will ever happen. Years ago Mike Bryant (long since deceased) made N gauge wheels using 2mm SA components and the same is still possible. You can buy the raw wheel castings from the 2mm SA, and you could get tyres made to RP25 profile by one of the myriad CNC companies there are about the place - so long as you order a thousand or two! Then you could manufacture the wheels in the same way the 2mm SA gnomes do it. The 3mm Society wheels are made because of large injections of cash from members (living or decesased as a bequest) and do not have to obey the normal laws of economics - although its possible they might make a profit in the long long term. If the NGS had the same will, it could do the same. But the dynamics are different. 3mm modellers have to have wheels, because there is no such thing as RTR in that scale any more. No wheels, no scale. That certainly is not true in N. I'm also going to say that I have some ABS/Beaver wheels squirelled away, and the tyres on them look awful compared to the latest RP25 offerings from Bachmann. Time has moved on and left these far behind. Damien is promising us 2mm wheels of this own manufacture this year, and there is no reason except financial they could not be made in N as well. Let's see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I don't doubt they're very difficult to source but are you sure about that? Presumably the RTR manufacturers get them from somewhere (I doubt they make them themselves), ... G. As a rule, they make them themselves. Even the likes of Ixion manufacture the wheels as part of the whole loco. Fleischmann wheels at least can be bought if you go to the right (normally German) model shops. But they cost a fortune and have to be ordered as spares. They generally have the wrong number of spokes compared to diameter for British prototypes. And they are not to anything like an RP25 profile. Kato wheels can also be bought, although normally only for a period when a model is produced, as a fixed amount of spares are also mde at the same time Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 26, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26, 2011 Damien is promising us 2mm wheels of this own manufacture this year, . It will be interesting to see how these turn out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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