Please help

[pharro]

Hello I need some help as my topic title sugests. I'm modeling in n guage and using a nce controler and my trains keep stoping or in some places doesn't run at all. It did work fine when I used a dynamis controler but I got an nce as it suited my needs better. There has been a gap of about two mounths in running my layout. I have uses 1mm wire for the bus a 0.5 for feeders. These are going to each piece of track. I have tryed it with a guagemaster dc controler and I got the same problem. I have cleaned it with some of digitrains cleaning fluid. I am greatful for any help.

 

Thank you for looking and sorry about the spelling.

[Gdaysydney]

It sounds very much like a track/wheels problem rather than a controller issue - if I have read your post correctly you say you are getting the same problem running DC loco's with Gaugemaster as you are with NCE and DCC. I assume you are using different trains - if this is correct then the problem is almost certainly the track/wiring specially as you say " the trains keep stopping or in some places don't run at all" .

 

If the locos were running OK in the past and you have just changed DCC controllers then the most likely cause is a combination crud on the loco wheels and dirty track ( it amazing how a track can get dirty even over a short period of not being used.).

If your wheels are clean and the track is clean then the problem could be that you have a poor connection where you are relying on metal joiners ( can't remember their correct name) to connect one length of track to another where one length of track does not have its own "dropper" to the power supply ( BUS in DCC language)

 

You may need to systematically eliminate potential issues around the track- it sounds like you can run your layout on DC or DCC so I would start by using DC as DC is more tolerant of poor circuitry..

Pick a reliable loco that is not fitted with a decoder and give the wheels and pick ups a good clean. Then I would select a length of track on your layout ( no need to clean the whole layout just yet) and give that a really good clean - then try running the loco over this piece of track. - It should run fine if the loco has been a good runner - if it doesn't respond then check the wiring. It it runs OK then progressively clean the track until you get to a section where the loco refuses to run - to test the joiners I use a screwdriver and apply pressure to the suspect joiner - if the loco starts moving you have found the problem.

 

 

One thing you should be aware of using the NCE digital system is that it does not allow for non chipped locos ( i.e DC) to run on the DCC track. Some systems do although I suspect it is not good for the motor.

[pharro]

I have been cleaning a single piece of track and I'm using a brand new train out the box. it has helped and the train does work on the pieace of track I cleaned for a little while but then stopes and you get nothing again until you give it a nudge.

 

I might try and rewire and as when I was striping the bus wire to wrap the feeder round I did fray some of the bus wire. I was also thinking of using the bulb technec.

[Kris]

Try getting a piece of paper and wiping this over the top, if you get black lines one the paper then your track is still dirty.

 

Do you have any other locos that you could try to see if it is an issue with the loco?

 

You have said that this is an intermittent issue. Unless you are moving the controller about, or are moving the layout it seems unlikely to be down to the wiring.

[Kenton]

I was striping the bus wire to wrap the feeder round I did fray some of the bus wire.

Is that the way you make all connections to the bus?

 

simply winding the dropper wire round the bus is simply not enough the winding will work loose and power will not be transferred.

The connection needs to be either soldered or some mechanical plug/connector.

[Stevelewis]

MMMMMMMMMMMM From my digital experience bus bars can cause problems over time.

 

I personally have NEVER used bothered to use one one I wire direct to the track as required and this works without problems, I have built several layouts using the no bus system and they still work to this day, some are around 12 years + old now.

 

Personally I think that it is possible to get too carried away with advice given re bus systems.

 

Even my digital garden lines were wired exactly the same way without any problems.

 

I suggest that you may like to try simply wirng from your central station directly to the track.

 

one of the advantages of DCC is to simplify layout wiring NOT complicate it.

[Kenton]

I personally have NEVER used bothered to use one one I wire direct to the track as required and this works without problems, I have built several layouts using the no bus system and they still work to this day, some are around 12 years + old now.

So as I understand it you still add connections to you track as most would do - 'the droppers/feeds' then run them all individually back to your controller output. So that could be 100's of wires individually going back in one massive bundle across board joins and somehow all connected to the one output from your controller.

 

... and that's "one of the advantages of DCC" !!

 

Well that certainly isn't the accepted way to wire a layout in DC or DCC.

 

Perhaps you use a bus after all?

[pharro]

Thanks for the tip about the paper why do I never think about these simple but good ideas. I am using three trains a deltic prototype, a class 24 dcc and a 3mt not yet chiped. The deltic does work a little better which is the newest one.

 

I do wrap the wire around and then cover it in electrical tap. I will solder it now as teco put it every little helps.

[Kenton]

I do wrap the wire around and then cover it in electrical tap. I will solder it now as teco put it every little helps.

I would almost put money on that being the cause of your intermittent fault. Nothing else but a non-electrical join in the circuit. Solder them all up and enjoy running trains.

[pharro]

Hi all just a little up date I have now solderded my feeders and given a section of track a good clean. It has made a big difference and the deltic runs well. However it does stop on points.I have given them a good clean, even around the switch blades. I am using settrack points and have made no alterations to them. I know that points mainly use the switch blades and fishblades for conection is there anything that can be done to improve this.

 

I am really greatful to everyone for any help.

[Gdaysydney]

This may be of some use

 

Link to Allan Gartner site

[Dr Al]

Thanks for the tip about the paper why do I never think about these simple but good ideas. I am using three trains a deltic prototype, a class 24 dcc and a 3mt not yet chiped. The deltic does work a little better which is the newest one.

 

I do wrap the wire around and then cover it in electrical tap. I will solder it now as teco put it every little helps.

 

If the locos are brand new then have they been properly run in first? Generally they can be a touch sticky first out the box - an hours running at half speed in each direction will nicely bed the mechanisms in.

 

Cheers,

Alan