Calling Gaugemaster Prodigy users - help please.

[250BOB]

Hi Guys,

I have a Lenz system, so am pretty unfamilar with the ways of the prodigy, which is my pals.

 

When he has a short on his system, something like "Svda" comes up on the screen, BUT, the loco keeps going, but nothing you press on the controller does anything to stop the loco. You have to switch off the base unit.

With my Lenz, you get a short, and the lot shuts down.

 

Anyone know whats happening here......this isnt a one off, it always does this.

Bob

[Guest 838rapid]

Hi Bob.

 

I operate a Prod too,and yes this is what it does normally.

 

I find you can unplug the handset and this also clears the SVDA.

 

Strange thing to have to do,But it works

[Barry Ten]

Yep, same with mine.

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Bob,

I used to have the Prodigy until very recently. I had two methods of dealing with this;

Unplug the handset, wait a moment and plug back in - as long as short is cleared, no problem! OR

Fit a high current 12v bulb (I used a car indicator bulb!) into the track feed (I mounted mine on the control panel) - if you do get a short, the bulb shines very brightly indicating the presence of a short - but the locos on the layout (& the handset) don't shut down. This was very useful with sound fitted locos!

Again, once you clear the short - no problem!

Cheers,

John E.

[250BOB]

And this is acceptable.??????????

 

I would have thought that hitting the red stop button might have killed the system at least.??

 

What happens when you are bringing your loco to a stop in a terminus, and you dont realise that you have had a short....your train keeps on going, smacking into the buffers, unless you are quick enough to get to the base unit.

 

I find this really odd behaviour from a dcc system....glad I went down the Lenz route.

 

I shall tell my pal that it normal behaviour for the gaugemaster set.

 

Thanks for your replies guys.

 

Bob

[Xerces Fobe2]

I got so fed up with my Prodigy with all the problems I had with it I that I purchased an NCE PowerCab in my opinion a much better piece of kit. I still use the Prodigy for programming and testing only.

 

Xerces Fobe

[Brian]

Hi Guys,

I have a Lenz system, so am pretty unfamilar with the ways of the prodigy, which is my pals.

 

When he has a short on his system, something like "Svda" comes up on the screen, BUT, the loco keeps going, but nothing you press on the controller does anything to stop the loco. You have to switch off the base unit.

With my Lenz, you get a short, and the lot shuts down.

 

Anyone know whats happening here......this isnt a one off, it always does this.

Bob

Hi

I would contact Gaugemaster as doest seem correct to me! 'SvdA' means the system has detected a short and should shut down all track output power. How can a system provide power to run trains if it has a full short circuit being applied across its connections? Unless your DCC wiring isn't 100%?

System shut down is certainly what happens on my PA.

When there is a short circuit on my layout the PAs power is cut off instantaneously and " SvdA" appears in the throttles display.

I remove the cause of the short and reset the system (On / Off switch) and its all is back to normal operation.

 

The use of a single filament 21watt 12 volt car indicator or reversing lamp in series with one of the track wires is an option to prevent any DCC console going into short circuit mode.

It does give current limiting protection and a very bright indicator that there is fault somewhere

.

However there is still (and with the PA) around 1.0 to 1.5Amps of DCC track power still available, which if the lamp(s) are wired in series with separate insulated sections of track, then when a short occurs in one area other unaffected sections will remain powered and working normally.

Electronic circuit breakers are better, but they do cost considerably more than car lamps! :unsure:

[muddys-blues]

Hi Bob, I run the original release of Prodigy and SVDA usually means there is a problem with something short out the track power and this should be kill off the power almost immediately.

 

Is your Friend using the earlier Hornby chips in his locos, as this mixture of Prodigy and earlier Hornby chips leads to the "run away" loco sympton, and you cannot stop the loco whatsoever with the stop button.

 

I would try another loco on the system just to check out the chips, before pointing the problem at the Prodigy.

 

Best regards

Craig.

[Barry Ten]

 

Is your Friend using the earlier Hornby chips in his locos, as this mixture of Prodigy and earlier Hornby chips leads to the "run away" loco sympton, and you cannot stop the loco whatsoever with the stop button.

 

 

I certainly experienced this "interesting" behaviour, before I dumped the early chips.

 

Has anyone had problems with consisting with their Prodigy? I was able to set up one consist (defined as consist #1) , using advanced consisting, and that was it; I've never managed to set up a second consist, using either advanced or simple consisting. Most if not all of my locos have the right decoder functions for advanced consisting, but the Prodigy doesn't seem to want to play ball.

[Phil-Essex]

I have a Gaugemaster Prodigy 2 and when a short occurs SVDA is shown on the handset along with a beeping sound and the track power is cut.

[Nigelcliffe]

Hi

I would contact Gaugemaster as doest seem correct to me! 'SvdA' means the system has detected a short and should shut down all track output power. How can a system provide power to run trains if it has a full short circuit being applied across its connections? Unless your DCC wiring isn't 100%?

System shut down is certainly what happens on my PA.

When there is a short circuit on my layout the PAs power is cut off instantaneously and " SvdA" appears in the throttles display.

I remove the cause of the short and reset the system (On / Off switch) and its all is back to normal operation.

 

My friend who owns a Gaugemaster system has the SvdA problem - track short and SvdA is displayed. If the short is cleared, the command station base unit restores power, but the handset stays locked in SvdA mode as reported in this thread. To clear it, one has to unplug and re-plug the handset. Shorts on my friend's line are typically incorrectly set turnouts and short at the crossing polarity.

 

The problem was reported to Gaugemaster, who said "its supposed to do that".

 

 

So, after discussing things with my friend, we have fitted a 21W bulb in series which acts as an "idiot indicator", to indicate that an idiot has forgotten to throw the turnouts correctly !

 

 

 

- Nigel

[pinzaboy]

My prodigy also has the SVDA issue.

 

It will short, show SVDA, and then trains keep running until the base unit is switched off. When you switch it on again, obviously power is restored but no trains actually move until you call them up on the handset and alter the speed control by at least one notch.

 

And I fully agree with Barry Ten, it will not consist whatever you try!!

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Brian]

Hi

I can't grasp how with a full short circuit across the rails, a DCC console can keep the layout running?? Perhaps I'm missing something??

As I see it, a short circuit conducts all available power to the opposite polarity and can result in some large currents flowing! Some DCC consoles may keep 'testing' their output by momentarily reapplying power, but cutting it off again immediately if the short is still present. Unless the newer PAs reset automatically to some form of reduced power output? Perhaps via an internal current limiting device like a resistor etc - much like having the car lamp in series with the output works. Otherwise I just can't see how with a full short circuit, full power can be reapplied to the rails allowing locos to move again - there is a short on the system that's robbing all power! The other way is if using isolated track sections and DCC boosters.

 

Are you sure the SvdA appears with a full short circuit occurring or is something else causing it?

 

My PA shuts down upon a short occurring. The console has to be turned off/on to reset the system.

 

Advanced consisting is carried out within the locos decoders that are to make up the advanced consist via CV19. It is more than likely one or more of the decoders can't use Advance consisting? Hence the inability to set up such a consist.

 

Universal Consisting is done within the PA console and on the PA only one set of universal consists can be set up at any one time.

[Xerces Fobe2]

 

Has anyone had problems with consisting with their Prodigy? I was able to set up one consist (defined as consist #1) , using advanced consisting, and that was it; I've never managed to set up a second consist, using either advanced or simple consisting. Most if not all of my locos have the right decoder functions for advanced consisting, but the Prodigy doesn't seem to want to play ball.

 

I was driven nuts by this here is the solution

 

I assume you have deleted the consist (well it does not work always) The Prodigy stores the last 20 locos you have programmed in it's memory stack; if you disconnect or remove the power to the Prodigy and still remembers them. If one of any of the locos have been in a consist they may not work on their own any more and you will have trouble setting up another consist. To overcome this issue delete all the loco numbers in the memory stack one by one and then things will return normal! As I said earlier in this thread this was the final straw for me and I now have a PowerCab/ProCab system that I really like!

 

Good Luck,

 

Xerces Fobe

[Barry Ten]

 

Advanced consisting is carried out within the locos decoders that are to make up the advanced consist via CV19. It is more than likely one or more of the decoders can't use Advance consisting? Hence the inability to set up such a consist.

 

Universal Consisting is done within the PA console and on the PA only one set of universal consists can be set up at any one time.

 

Hi Brian - no, I checked - all the locos I was attempting to consist were capable of supporting advanced consisting. In fact as I programmed the consist, the individual locos would "twitch" the way they do when a CV is being updated. It's just that attempting to run the consist always failed. I tried UA as well, no joy. Since I model American and need to run multiple units, I just assigned the same address to all the engines in a given consist, but that's a crude workaround.

[Barry Ten]

I was driven nuts by this here is the solution

 

Good Luck,

 

Xerces Fobe

 

Thanks for this, I will definitely give it a shot!

[250BOB]

Hi

I can't grasp how with a full short circuit across the rails, a DCC console can keep the layout running?? Perhaps I'm missing something??

As I see it, a short circuit conducts all available power to the opposite polarity and can result in some large currents flowing! Some DCC consoles may keep 'testing' their output by momentarily reapplying power, but cutting it off again immediately if the short is still present. Unless the newer PAs reset automatically to some form of reduced power output? Perhaps via an internal current limiting device like a resistor etc - much like having the car lamp in series with the output works. Otherwise I just can't see how with a full short circuit, full power can be reapplied to the rails allowing locos to move again - there is a short on the system that's robbing all power! The other way is if using isolated track sections and DCC boosters.

 

Are you sure the SvdA appears with a full short circuit occurring or is something else causing it?

 

My PA shuts down upon a short occurring. The console has to be turned off/on to reset the system.

 

Advanced consisting is carried out within the locos decoders that are to make up the advanced consist via CV19. It is more than likely one or more of the decoders can't use Advance consisting? Hence the inability to set up such a consist.

 

Universal Consisting is done within the PA console and on the PA only one set of universal consists can be set up at any one time.

 

Hi Brian,

Many thanks for your reply........I'll try and give you a bit more info on my pals Prodigy problem.

 

It happens when a loco is traversing a set of points, and there is a momentary short, enough to bring up the SVDA notation on the controller screen. I suspect that because it was only momentary, it was enough to stop the controller working, but power is still applied without being controllable. It sounds a complete nonsense to me that this occurs, it certainly never happens with my Lenz kit.

That said however, on my Lenz kit, if it is a momentary short, say a wheel back to back problem, the loco will come to an immediate stop, but will then start up again by itself, no fault shows on the controller. At first I used to think it was a pick up problem, but it wasnt.

Does all that help Brian......and by the way, thanks for your web site...its been of great help to me in my DCC learning curve.

Cheers..............Bob.

[MRDBLUE17]

Hi Bob,

 

I totally get what you mean with the fault showing up on the handset as mine does that from time to time. It is often only momentary shorts that clear straight away but because the system picks this up it comes up with the fault message. What I have found is that often short wheelbase wagons eg: a TTA tank or similar with metal wheels will slightly fowl on a frog and this is despite have insulfrog on my layout as it just bridges the gap - sometimes you will just see a flicker in your loco headlights as this happens and a short may not occur. What I have learnt from this is that on future builds I will insulate rails leading into forgs and will also be using live frog points anyway for even smoother operation of smaller locos. The easiest fix might be just to insulate the rails on the points that keep causing the issues but ensure you still have good electical connections at the other end as the switch blades can drop a little and therefore loss of power and locos stalling - not fun with sound fitted machines! Overall though I am happy with my prodigy system.

 

Mark

[250BOB]

Hi Bob,

 

I totally get what you mean with the fault showing up on the handset as mine does that from time to time. It is often only momentary shorts that clear straight away but because the system picks this up it comes up with the fault message. What I have found is that often short wheelbase wagons eg: a TTA tank or similar with metal wheels will slightly fowl on a frog and this is despite have insulfrog on my layout as it just bridges the gap - sometimes you will just see a flicker in your loco headlights as this happens and a short may not occur. What I have learnt from this is that on future builds I will insulate rails leading into forgs and will also be using live frog points anyway for even smoother operation of smaller locos. The easiest fix might be just to insulate the rails on the points that keep causing the issues but ensure you still have good electical connections at the other end as the switch blades can drop a little and therefore loss of power and locos stalling - not fun with sound fitted machines! Overall though I am happy with my prodigy system.

 

Mark

 

My pal is also very happy with the Prodigy overall too.....it is just this slight anomally that I didnt know if it was common to Prodigy, or just my pals set.

My pal also uses electrofrog, so that alone is not the answer.....I think it may be necessary to go the extra mile and wire up the points so that stock and switch blade become the same polarity, I'm almost certain that would eliminate most of the momentary shorts.

Cheers.........Bob.

[Brian]

Hi

I understand more clearly now the full explanation of events has been given! :rolleyes:

The short is only momentary, the PA see the short occur and initially goes into overload condition, cutting all track power for two seconds. It then retests and finds the short has been removed and can then restore rail power, as the problem has now gone but leaves the SvdA message on the throttle display as a reminder.

 

If the short is continuous the system can't self reset until the problem is cleared.

 

Carrying out the so called DCC Friendly conversion to electrofrog points will help overcome many of these problems.

[mattog]

I have a Prodigy Advance 2 and I run sound locos. What worries me is when a loco runs into an incorrectly set point and shorts. Rather than completely shutting down, the advance keeps applying bursts of power and you get that high pitched buzzing from the decoder. Surely this can't be good? I usually shut the unit off but it means i can't leave the room or stray too far from the controller.

[250BOB]

I have a Prodigy Advance 2 and I run sound locos. What worries me is when a loco runs into an incorrectly set point and shorts. Rather than completely shutting down, the advance keeps applying bursts of power and you get that high pitched buzzing from the decoder. Surely this can't be good? I usually shut the unit off but it means i can't leave the room or stray too far from the controller.

 

Yes......I would worry too. Perhaps Gaugemaster themselves could offer some advice.

Bob.

[Neal Ball]

I am thinking about upgrading to the Prodigy, but am not sure now, having read this thread.

[mattog]

Yes......I would worry too. Perhaps Gaugemaster themselves could offer some advice.

Bob.

[mattog]

Yes......I would worry too. Perhaps Gaugemaster themselves could offer some advice.

Bob.

 

I contacted gaugemaster about this a little while back and they said this was normal. Maybe mrc who make the advance might have a better answer. Has anyone else experienced this and been concerned?