GreenDiesel001 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Hello. I have recently purchased a Rivarossi American outline H0 steam locomotive. Partly due to the fact I enjoy watching valve gear and large locomotives. Besides Rivarossi who manufactures steam outline locomotives please? Regards, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Rivarossi are now made by Hornby Off the top of my head take a look at: Walthers (Proto 2000) Broadway Limited Bachmann (spectrum) I'm sure there are more as well.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 28, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2011 Bachmann have quite a large range of US HO steam, and they are quite affordable and run reasonably well. Walthers Proto 2000 also sell a small range Broadway Limited sell a large range, but they tend to sell out and then you await the next run, some years later MTH - Mike's Train House - are a relative newcomer to HO, being traditionally in larger scales, and are selling interesting prototypes. Intermountain do one or two steam locos Athearn have done a few in the last 10 years I think most of these would be at least as good as Rivarossi, which has been making US steam for more than 40 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kf4yyd Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 MTH - Mike's Train House - are a relative newcomer to HO, being traditionally in larger scales, and are selling interesting prototypes. I had the opportunity to see an MTH steam loco in action a couple of weeks ago, I was amazed that not only did the unit come with a sound decoder it also had smoke capabilities. The smoke was timed very well to the engine chuff and looked very realistic. I also picked up a packaged MTH diesel ( I believe it was an SD-60) and was surprised by the heft of the unit hopefully an indicator that it is well made. Could possibly be a player in the HO market. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I had the opportunity to see an MTH steam loco in action a couple of weeks ago, I was amazed that not only did the unit come with a sound decoder it also had smoke capabilities. The smoke was timed very well to the engine chuff and looked very realistic. I also picked up a packaged MTH diesel ( I believe it was an SD-60) and was surprised by the heft of the unit hopefully an indicator that it is well made. Could possibly be a player in the HO market. Tom MTH is a big can-o-worms in some quarters. They started out as large scale toy trains. Their movement into HO and some quote "questionable" unquote business practices have made them the Marmite of manufacturers. A lot of their sounds are quite gimmicy and toylike. Their DCS system is only partly compatible with DCC. Over the past few years they've thrown lawsuits at just about every competitor they can and have generated far too much animosity to ever be more than a niche in the US market. I see that Woodland Scenics in a turnabout is suing MTH for cloning their resin structures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 MTH is a big can-o-worms in some quarters. They started out as large scale toy trains. Their movement into HO and some quote "questionable" unquote business practices have made them the Marmite of manufacturers. A lot of their sounds are quite gimmicy and toylike. Their DCS system is only partly compatible with DCC. Over the past few years they've thrown lawsuits at just about every competitor they can and have generated far too much animosity to ever be more than a niche in the US market. I see that Woodland Scenics in a turnabout is suing MTH for cloning their resin structures. The Marmite reference...excellent. Their DCS decoders have marginal compatibility with DCC - no advanced consisting, no speed curve support, other stuff. Their home-engineered SD70ACe model is notoriously hard to disassemble...which wasn't a problem until MTH bowed to poor sales and deigned to offering a model without their DCS decoder. There is no more polarizing company in the business. Their products don't impress me - clunky freight cars, proprietary controls in the locomotives, and expensive too. Add the lawsuit nonsense and I'm out. BUT...back to the original question! Top shelf is Broadway Limited and Walthers/Proto 2000. Bachmann can do some nice things and can do some miserable things. Intermountain's doing some steam but their cab forwards have had, well, issues. Athearn's done steam and recent models have gotten good reports; earlier USRA Pacifics and Mikados were dodgy at best. I personally have a number of the Broadway models of Pennsylvania RR steam - by and large I'm extremely satisfied. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kf4yyd Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 MTH is a big can-o-worms in some quarters. They started out as large scale toy trains. Their movement into HO and some quote "questionable" unquote business practices have made them the Marmite of manufacturers. A lot of their sounds are quite gimmicy and toylike. Their DCS system is only partly compatible with DCC. Over the past few years they've thrown lawsuits at just about every competitor they can and have generated far too much animosity to ever be more than a niche in the US market. I see that Woodland Scenics in a turnabout is suing MTH for cloning their resin structures. The Marmite reference...excellent. Their DCS decoders have marginal compatibility with DCC - no advanced consisting, no speed curve support, other stuff. Their home-engineered SD70ACe model is notoriously hard to disassemble...which wasn't a problem until MTH bowed to poor sales and deigned to offering a model without their DCS decoder. There is no more polarizing company in the business. Their products don't impress me - clunky freight cars, proprietary controls in the locomotives, and expensive too. Add the lawsuit nonsense and I'm out. Thanks for that info, learn something new everyday. I'm not in the market for US prototype anyway but if and when I do go back to my local stuff I will stay away from them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Thanks for that info, learn something new everyday. I'm not in the market for US prototype anyway but if and when I do go back to my local stuff I will stay away from them. Oh dear. Craig, I think we can both expect a nasty-gram from MTH's legal team. B) Personally I wouldn't touch their stuff with a writ wrapped around a barge pole. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDiesel001 Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Thank you gentlemen for all your replies. I have been a modeller, no correct that, someone who proports to be a modeller for 50+ years. Never been able to stay with one theme hence a load of stock. Please would you contribute further with your opinions about "good" model US locomotives and "dogs". I always thought Fleischmann and Rivarossi to be the top end btu I am wondering if I have got the Rivarossi opinion wrong? One thing I do try to achieve is good running and am not afraid to strip an older locomotive down to improve it. Thanks, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2011 I'm not sure about Rivarossi's current status - was it bought by Hornby? - but most of their recent offerings have been in production for many years. I bought a N&W Y6b 2-8-8-2 in 1971..... In short, current offerings from other manufacturers, typically made in China, of course, exhibit modern superior detailing levels. I have been reasonably lucky with my Bachmann steamers, but as Craig suggests they are not very robust, with a slightly awkward gait on a couple of 4-8-2s, and a stripped/split gear on my second 2-8-0. But they do look good. My Proto 2000 2-8-8-2, made in Austria I think, is pretty nice, as is the 0-8-0 from the same stable. The 2-8-8-2 does suffer excessively from dirty pickups, though, where you might expect such a big loco to breeze through iffy pointwork, it can be frustrating and need attention suprisingly often. The Athearn 2-8-2 showed reasonable detail - but the wire loom 'twixt loco and tender was more than happy to derail the tender at the slightest provocation. Their 4-6-6-4 doesn't suffer from this, but has ghastly MRC sound, with equally unfriendly MRC function designations - F12 is mute, instead of the usual F8. As Craig says, the Broadway Limited (BLI) stuff is hard to argue with. Among 7 steamers the only problem I had was with a Santa Fe 4-8-4 where excessive solder in the socket under the cab caused a short. Their Santa Fe 2-10-2s are nice, and a bit more robust than Bachmann's version. I have 4 of their 2-8-2s, and love them. They just run and run. I've also been pleased with a number of their diesels. Do not buy BLI Blue Line stuff - the sound system and DCC-options can be difficult. I believe BLI have moved on from that range now. Their original tie-up with QSI for sound and control was much more successful, and QSI are now the leading original-equipment sound supplier in the US market, followed by Soundtraxx. Both get high marks from most reviewers - if you like sound at all, of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbonnetuk Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 A couple of caveats on the above posts. If you're tempted to test the water with an Intermountain AC12 Southern Pacific 'Cab Forward' insist on seeing it run as IM had some monumental assembly quality problems with the last but one production run. A friend has one of the first run and has just bought one of the latest ones and they look and run beautifully. However another friend had a couple from the 'rogue' batch that required, IIRC, a motor change and disassembly of the valve gear to get it to behave. Also older Rivarossi loco have deep flanges that means that they don't like anything finer that Code 100 track - providing its the last of the original line and the Hornby re-issues then they are fine. Also avoid older Athearn Genesis steam locos with the MRC DCC chips as the sound is a bit pony compared to the QSI (BLI & Proto 2000) and Tsumami (Intermountain) and take a lot of fiddling with the chip settings to get to run smoothly. More recent Genesis locos (SP MT4 and UP Big Boys) now come equipt with Tsunami chips Dan Spalding Thank you gentlemen for all your replies. I have been a modeller, no correct that, someone who proports to be a modeller for 50+ years. Never been able to stay with one theme hence a load of stock. Please would you contribute further with your opinions about "good" model US locomotives and "dogs". I always thought Fleischmann and Rivarossi to be the top end btu I am wondering if I have got the Rivarossi opinion wrong? One thing I do try to achieve is good running and am not afraid to strip an older locomotive down to improve it. Thanks, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDiesel001 Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Thanks for your replies. I'm afraid I am of the old school, DC and no sound. I'm quite happy to imagine the sound and let the electrics look after themselves. My breakdown set gets plenty of use!!!! Regards, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDiesel001 Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hello. Please could I open out this subject to cover continental model locomotive manufacturers generally? Looking through ebay there are plenty of continental locomotive types and it would be interesting to know which manufacturers to consider and which to avoid. My interest is to build another small layout using the left overs from my Kings Lynn layout and run something totally different and as an alternative to my green era BR stock and it might be a venture into DCC. Thanks, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Thanks for your replies. I'm afraid I am of the old school, DC and no sound. I'm quite happy to imagine the sound and let the electrics look after themselves. My breakdown set gets plenty of use!!!! Regards, Jeff If you want DC and sound - look on EBay for an MRC soundbox (3 versions = Steam, diesel, and both)and run it with the output plugged into a set of the small amplified speakers that are sold for computers, tucked underneath the board - just don't turn it up too far! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Also, don't forget the older 'used' market..for US kit-built steam..MDC/Roundhouse, Bowser, Varney, Mantua, etc.....not perhaps as detailed as today's stuff...more akin to what I remember the old Hornby Dublo locos to be like. Then there's the multitude of Brass stuff? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDiesel001 Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hello. How do I find out about the brass stuff please? Thanks, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hello. How do I find out about the brass stuff please? I find an ebay enquiry of "brass" on ebay.com (not .co.uk) will give plenty to think about, but be aware that the abbreviations are both US and relating to brass conditions, and whether boxed or not. Some models are much more valuable than others. Also be aware that brass models are hand-made, often look very good, often don't run very well, certainly in comparison to current plastic models from China. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Hello. How do I find out about the brass stuff please? Thanks, Jeff You are entering a minefield here . There have been a number of brass manufacturers over the years, first based in Japan then in South Korea and some of the models have been first class and are priced accordingly. I shudder to think what they are going for on e-Bay. Sadly many brass engines were long on looks and light on tractive effort. Certain makers were better than others, Pacific Fast Mail and Toby come to mind immediately. Samhongsa had some good efforts in the Canadian models but some were a bit rough. There are guides out that suggest prices which might be of some help such as this one, http://www.steamlocomotive.com/model/HO-brass.php Good luck. HTH David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDiesel001 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 Many thanks again for your input. Please would you also comment on the following manufacturers which I believe are European. Roco Piko Liliput Jouef Marklin I have also notice, on ebay, Bachmann US style locomotives appear very reasonably priced for, for example a 4-8-0 or 2-10-2 locomotive. If one had to buy just three particular manufacturers products either DC or DCC which would it be please and in what order would you rate them? Thanks, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted March 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2011 I'll list the four I have experience of in my prefered order. Roco Had about 6 of these locos US and European prototypes, Well detailed & well engineered, hold their value well as a result even older models sit comfortably alongside most others very recent offerings. Detail can be delicate but generally the only thing I've ever had to do mechanically is clean wheels. Liliput Part of the Bachmann/Kader stable and directly comparable except I would say their quality control is a little better in my experience. Good detail again and a close second to Roco on reliability. Piko Fairly new to me but I've been impressed with their models so far. They basically have two ranges expert and basic where the mechanisims are comparable but the basic are stripped down detail and livery wise much like Hornbys Railroad range in the UK. The higher level models are very good detail wise and seem to run well although I'm basing this on only a couple I've seen run. Marklin Overpriced in my opinion when compared to the three above but if you want a model only Marklin do then thats the option rtr wise. Well engineered and detailed though you do seem to see a lot of their old models being sold with silly price tags as people go for the brand. There were a few fairly old models still being produced, although I'm not that up to date now as interests wandered, where I thought they were more akin to 80's Hornby in detail yet being sold at top end prices. My advice would be look carefully at what you are getting for your money and don't assume it will be a masterpiece in miniature just because of the brand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Since this has become the Euro-loco thread, perhaps the OP could edit the title to attract continental modellers that may have bypassed the American theme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDiesel001 Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Hello. Could this suggestion be implemented please or should I begin another thread? Thanks. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted March 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2011 Could this suggestion be implemented please jeff just go back to your first post and click edit and then amend the title rather than the text. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSWR Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Not mentioned so far are models made by Mehano (now out of business) and marketed by IHC in the USA. These tended to be "generic" steam locomotives on which multiple road names were slapped, irregardless of prototype accuracy. For example I have both a Pacific and Mikado purporting to be from the Erie Railroad which utilize exactly the same body shell. They run well enough but bear little relationship to any prototype. Another point to be mentioned is that early and inexpensive Bachmann locos used exactly the same pancake motors as Mainline. I repaired a Mainline Warship with parts from a Bachmann F7. As far as European manufacturers are concerned I have only experience with Roco, Lima and Jouef. Roco is good. Atlas in the US marketed some locos made by Roco. If I make a few modifications to pre-Hornby Lima I can get a reasonably running but noisy loco. Pre-Hornby Jouef motors and drive mechanisms are awful and take more work than Lima to run reliably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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