Heritage Yard signalling

[Coddy]

At Llangollen, in the Loco yard, there are no signals at all, at least until we get to the main running line/s

 

Is this normal for all (heritage) yards, I guess it must be as its not under the control of any signal box.

 

Had a couple of mixed answers from the actual Railway...

[Kris]

You would assume that it would be normal not to signal the yards, after all most will not be under the direct control of the signal box. The yard at Buckfastleigh on the South Devon Railway is not signalled apart for the exit to the main. Because of a lack of a head shunt many moves do "in the yard" do need to use the main line.

[Donw]

The rules on signalling are really important where passenger carrying trains are involved. In the yard there should be no passengers. Some moves may be controlled by a signalman with a flag particularly if any points are under box control otherwise its down to the people on the ground to ensure they know who is doing what and occasionally they don't oops!

Don

[The Stationmaster]

Basically yards would be worked with handpoints (i.e. a hand lever immediately next to the point toe) - this applied in all sorts of yards ranging from most older marshalling yards (although some of them were mechanised), loco shed yards, goods yards, and passenger yards. The requirement for signalling comes in where yard lines connect with running lines (i.e the lines on which 'trains' run, particularly trains conveying passengers).

 

Running lines require some sort of signalling system because they have a block system in order to regulate the passage of trains. The signalling system also serves to protect and control movements through points.

 

That sort of control is not needed in yards which would be worked under the control of ground staff such as Shunters or a member of the traincrew. Using handpoints makes the job much quicker and simpler because there is no need to communicate with a Signalman or wait for him to operate points and signals. The man on the ground works the points as needed and he controls movements by means of handsignals (which means waving arms in daylight, using a handlamp at night or in other poor visibility, or using a whistle when he can't see the Driver [and vice versa]).

[Coddy]

Excellent, this has saved me money on buying signals Guess now have to buy the point levers instead

[multiprinter]

Excellent, this has saved me money on buying signals Guess now have to buy the point levers instead

 

But now you have to design a working shunter to pull the point levers and give hand signals!

[PWSlack]

According to the seminar on the topic at ExpoEM a couple of years ago there are three types of railway line in the UK:

• Passenger running lines
• Non-passenger running lines
• Everything else.

Loco yards fall into the "everything else" category. Loco crews and their mounts are a law unto themselves until such time as the loco is presented at the yard exit point for access to a running line. Once there they come under the control of the Signalman, who will, with colleagues, use the locomotive to achieve the Working Timetable.

 

So, no signals are needed in yards, as anything that moves within them is not concerned with running movements until it leaves or enters.

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

According to the seminar on the topic at ExpoEM a couple of years ago there are three types of railway line in the UK:

• Passenger running lines
• Non-passenger running lines
• Everything else.

 

Oh dear, oh dear - depending on the date under consideration I can immediately come up with 5 categories of running line but then maybe they weren't interested in accuracy just a sort of potted summary? And there are, of course several categories of 'everything else' as well - one of those being a siding.

And as for Signalmen 'with colleagues' using locomotives to 'achieve the Working Timetable' I'd love to see a railway that works like that because it's not very much like the one I worked on for more than a few years - Signalmen being there to safely control movements on/onto running lines and to endeavour to avoid delay to trains running in accordance with the Working Timetable.

[beast66606]

So, no signals are needed in yards, as anything that moves within them is not concerned with running movements until it leaves or enters.

 

What did the countless signal boxes in yards control then ? Before making such assertions you should check your facts

[flyingsignalman]

Out of interest here is a photo of the box diagram for Clock Face Down Sigings which was situated in a small marshalling yard on the Widnes to St Helens line about 2 miles south of St Helens.

Widnes (and South) would be on your left and St Helens on your right as you looked at it

 

The top line running from right to left was the down loop. The lines under it were sidings 1 (top) to 8 (at the bottom).

 

At points 8 (still reading from right to left) the down loop became down loop 1 and siding one became down loop 2.

 

The bottom two lines on the left are siding 2 with siding 3 under it.

 

There was another signal box in the up sidings but that was closed on 5.11.1961 presumably due to falling traffic levels; the connections it controlled remained but were hand worked.

 

I have a S&T plan for the abolition of the yard, Clock Face Sidings No.2 and the down sidings box that was dated 1.2.1968 and issued on 9.2.1968 but I have no actual closure date though they had all gone by the time a new sectional appendix for the area was issued in June 1969