Eastwood Town - A tribute to Gordon's modelling.

[Regularity]

I think too many times people stick with tried and tested, rather than standing back. The key thing for a Model Railway is a rigid trackbed, and thinking of it as a bridge between supports leads naturally to design it as an inverted U, with fairly deep sides which only need to be thick enough to keep things stable. If the track bed is then the foundation of structural strength, everything else can more or less hang off this, which is what you have realised. Using shelf brackets to support a layout built thus is an inspired idea. I think I may have over engineered some things in my garage. This would work for portable as well as permanent layouts, by the way.

 

When a teenager, I did - following Jas article in Scale Model Trains (1983, possibly June) - use the idea for non-scenicked track, using ¾” block-board (it was to hand!) trackbed with 3” deep 1/8” hardboard either side, arranged as an H section for a removable length of track between two sections. It was ok, but ¼” ply would have been stronger.

 

Peco’s H0 track is 1:87 scale representation of non-UK track. The code 83 range is directly aimed at the North American market with a reasonable degree of fidelity. The other ranges use similar information for the ties (sleepers), 9” square timber spaced at roughly 21”-22”. This came about through using 9” square timber, so workmen didn’t have to worry about which way up it went, with spacing between them derived from a workman putting his boot between each tie, and the rail was spiked directly to the rail. With a barely literate and frequently non-English speaking workforce this was the only way to get track laid rapidly across the continent. Although things like tie-plates cam along later, and rail weights increased an awful lot, the basic tie size and spacing remained, and Peco H0 track reflects this.

[TrevorP1]

My project is paused due to house move but I'll certainly bear in mind this method of construction.

 

By the way - and OT - 'Nothing Like it in the World' by Stephen Ambrose is a good read about building the transcontinental railroads in North America.

[polybear]

7 of 9 in fact. And really who would resist

 

I didn't. It was the best two days of my life. I've only just learned to walk again.

 

Love the warehouses in post 3243 - are they scratchbuilt, or commercially available please?

[gordon s]

Hi Poly, no they started life out on Peterborough, the forerunner of Peterborough North. Gilbert commissioned Allan Downes to build them and I was lucky enough to buy all of these buildings from Gilbert when he dismantled his old layout to make way for the new one.

 

In total there are probably 20 buildings that Allan built and as you would expect they are all pretty special.

 

I'm sure there's pics of some of the others earlier in this thread. If not, I'll post some in a few days

[Chimer]

I'm very taken with the trackbed idea.  Some random thoughts and queries spring to mind .......

 

Curves.  Do you just bend the ply to form the side pieces?  Which leads to, what thickness do you use?  Or, would bendy MDF do the job?

 

Larger flat areas, e.g. station, goods yard, MPD.  Presumably you use wider sections, maybe as wide as 2', so I guess these need additional cross bracing?

 

Gradients (which I know you don't want).  Cutting the side pieces to the gradient profile first would seem a great way of getting a smooth incline (needing to be a bit clever with curves as the outer side piece would need to be longer and the angle therefore marginally less).

 

And for the supporting structure, for those without your woodwork skills - square knock-together tubing (as seen here http://www.richardsonsuk.co.uk/25mm-square-tube-system/p47 - usual satisfied customer disclaimer) might work well - its adjustable feet are excellent for levelling purposes.

 

Thanks for the idea!

 

Chris

[gordon s]

Thanks for your interest, Chris.  The materials I use are 12mm ply for the trackbed, 6mm mdf for the side plates and 45 x 45 square timber for the blocks.  The side plates and blocks are all cut to length, to ensure they are all the same size and the blocks are glued and screwed onto the trackbed.  This has been cut to shape using the trackbed width feature in Templot.  The printed sheets are cut out and taped to the sheet of ply and then they are cut to shape with a jigsaw.

 

Once the blocks are firmly in place, the side plates are glued to the trackbed and held in position with quick release clamps.  They are also screwed into the blocks and once firmly screwed and glued, the clamps can be released.  The end plates are typically 110mm deep by 20 mm thick.

 

If I have a wide section as you suggest, then I would use additional bracing underneath.

 

A large curved area such as this one, can often be made up of three or four pieces that are 'biscuit joined' at the ends and then have additional 12mm ply added across the join underneath.  When produced this way, they need no additional bracing, other than the side cheeks.

 

With inclines, I have the end cheeks at various heights and cut the side plates shorter in length, but still use the full depth. This still provides a rigid structure without fouling the sides/ends of the support framework.

 

Many thanks for the link to the 25mm square tubing.  Initial thoughts are that it is possibly no more expensive than timber and would be stronger.  I would need to look at it more closely, but it really could prove advantageous to use compared to timber.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[danstercivicman]

Wow!!!! That multi levelled masterpiece is great!

[gordon s]

I'm assuming you mean one of the earlier versions.  They loved that one down the tip.......

[Regularity]

I stopped making baseboards a few years ago, when the eleventh set (of 12 - yes, only one made it) was taken to the tip and a friend commented that I had built more baseboards that most people build layouts...

 

Trouble is, since then, I haven’t done anything other than put up a backscene and a support structure for baseboards that have yet to appear. And that was in 2010.

[danstercivicman]

I'm assuming you mean one of the earlier versions. They loved that one down the tip.......

Yup

 

Oh no... your wood work skills are awesome!!'

[gordon s]

Who'd have thought those woodwork classes 57 years ago would come into their own at some time or other.  I'll take it all back Mr Pratt....Not joking, that was his name....

 

Right, I've had enough of baseboards and wiring for a while, so in between golf, I'm going back to my first love, track building.

 

I was never 100% happy with the top end of ET, so have been playing around with some ideas to continue the goods loop further round and include direct access to a small industrial area plus moving the entrance back onto the main line towards ET itself.

 

I have a soft spot for double junctions and in particular, switched crossings, so had to add one.

 

Here's the Templot sheets which will need seven new C10 turnouts and a switched crossing.  

 

Ignore the vertical tracks going across the main lines.  That's where the board joins are.

 

I may be gone some time......

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by gordon s

[BoD]

Here we go again.

Hope those skips are still there.

[gordon s]

Rest easy, Warren.  I will be off to the tip tomorrow with household stuff, but nothing ET related.  This change doesn't change any of the boards at all and the pointwork still had to be built.  

 

I appreciate your concern...

 

How do you fancy Middlesborough away?

 

Edit.  My blooming' spelling gizmo keeps changing pointwork to paintwork.....

 

Edit 2.  Let's try again....

Edited December 4, 2017 by gordon s

[BoD]

Edit.  My blooming' spelling gizmo keeps changing paintwork to paintwork.....

I see what you mean.

[gordon s]

Here we go again.

Hope those skips are still there.

 

 

Hey up!  This caught me eye on your lovely layout thread.....

 

Seems you're not immune to the odd change either.....

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by gordon s

[BoD]

Touché.

From the master, well have I learnt.

[Regularity]

Touché.

They arrest people for doing that nowadays!

[hayfield]

Thanks for your interest, Chris.  The materials I use are 12mm ply for the trackbed, 6mm mdf for the side plates and 45 x 45 square timber for the blocks.  The side plates and blocks are all cut to length, to ensure they are all the same size and the blocks are glued and screwed onto the trackbed.  This has been cut to shape using the trackbed width feature in Templot.  The printed sheets are cut out and taped to the sheet of ply and then they are cut to shape with a jigsaw.

 

Once the blocks are firmly in place, the side plates are glued to the trackbed and held in position with quick release clamps.  They are also screwed into the blocks and once firmly screwed and glued, the clamps can be released.  The end plates are typically 110mm deep by 20 mm thick.

 

If I have a wide section as you suggest, then I would use additional bracing underneath.

 

A large curved area such as this one, can often be made up of three or four pieces that are 'biscuit joined' at the ends and then have additional 12mm ply added across the join underneath.  When produced this way, they need no additional bracing, other than the side cheeks.

 

With inclines, I have the end cheeks at various heights and cut the side plates shorter in length, but still use the full depth. This still provides a rigid structure without fouling the sides/ends of the support framework.

 

Many thanks for the link to the 25mm square tubing.  Initial thoughts are that it is possibly no more expensive than timber and would be stronger.  I would need to look at it more closely, but it really could prove advantageous to use compared to timber.

 

DSCF8564.jpg

 

DSCF6774.jpg

 

Gordon

 

A serious bit of woodworking, yesterday 3 of us were cutting circles 2" wide so we can have 3 trains running round a Christmas tree for the Parish Churches Christmas Tree Festival at the weekend. 009 on the smallest circle at the top, then H0m with 0 16.5 at the bottom. We are using the Heath Robinson style of woodwork. My old woodworking teacher Chippy Chalmers must be turning in his grave still holding a bit of 2 x 1

[danstercivicman]

Your all very lucky! When I were a lad of a different generation wood work was on its way out due to health a safety. I learnt a lot academically but very little that is helpful in real life!!!! Hence my baseboards are wonky!!!

 

Keep up the good work!

[Regularity]

Here we go. Scale Trains, June 1983, but that means the article was prepared some time before and I think Jas began building Yaxbury in the late 70s:

 

Nothing new under the sun, eh?

 

 

[tigerburnie]

2BA and 4Ba screws are a bit light weight aren't they?

[gordon s]

Here we go. Scale Trains, June 1983, but that means the article was prepared some time before and I think Jas began building Yaxbury in the late 70s:

 

Yaxbury Baseboard Scale Trains 0683.jpg

Nothing new under the sun, eh?

 

 

Thanks for that, I'd not seen it before.  A really interesting piece.  As you say, nothing is new.....:-)

 

I like the use of square section tubing to build the support frame.  

 

Way back in the early 70's, I built some shelving units with glass shelves for my Hi Fi.  In my business life, we'd had exhibition contractors building display stands etc with chrome square tubing, so after a few beers one night I managed to negotiate a length or two plus the plastic joints and that was it, job done.....

 

The link to the tubing supplier was invaluable.  When I get time, I'll do a cost comparison between tubing and my normal timber construction.  I suspect a single frame/legs/feet of typically 1200 x 600 will be more expensive, but as the tubing is much stronger, a unit of 2400 x 600 may well compare well against two timber frames as the number of corner joints and legs will be the same as a smaller unit.

 

Completed my tip run (with nothing from ET), so now have the rest of the day to make a start on the new pointwork.....unless my dear lady finds something else for me to do....

[Regularity]

2BA and 4Ba screws are a bit light weight aren't they?

 

Given that the layout has been in existence for nigh on 40 years, having been regularly dismantled, loaded into a car, driven hundreds of miles, reassembled, operated, disassembled, loaded into a car, driven hundreds of miles home, unloaded, reassembled, etc and finally transported to Jas's loft, I wonder on what basis you make that judgement?

[tigerburnie]

Given that the layout has been in existence for nigh on 40 years, having been regularly dismantled, loaded into a car, driven hundreds of miles, reassembled, operated, disassembled, loaded into a car, driven hundreds of miles home, unloaded, reassembled, etc and finally transported to Jas's loft, I wonder on what basis you make that judgement?

 

50 years as an engineer made me think those size bolts would be a bit light weight, no criticism, just an observation based on years of experience, not in model making though.

[gordon s]

I also come from an engineering background and agreed 2-4BA screws would be a little light.  I tend to use M8 steel screws going into M8 prong nuts to hold ET boards together.  Of course the boards are much heavier and quite solid, unlike exhibition boards.  Just checked and a 2BA is only 4.7mm diameter and of course every time I think BA, I think small brass screws from my model aircraft days.

 

They must do the job as experience has shown, but I'd certainly use something more robust at home.

 

Track building, like most things, is easy if you do it most days.  Work on ET tends to come quite irregularly with a lot of action in the winter months and very little in the summer.  Sat down this afternoon and made a start on the switched crossing and whilst it is OK and passes all the running tests, I'm not happy about it so will scrap it tomorrow and start again.  Just one of those things. Having not built pointwork for six months I was making all sorts of errors and my head just wasn't in the right place.  It's only a couple of hours wasted and a few bits of material, so hardly the end of the world, but doing it a second time will eliminate all the stupid errors I made today.

 

One of the things I'm not happy about is the length of the switch rails.  I normally build pointwork to a crossing angle of 10 or greater.  This one is only a 7 and the blades are just 80mm long.  I started with just one solder 'chair' at A, but felt that just one solder joint at A would mean all the stress of the blade flex would only be on one joint, so I soldered another at B.  This effectively reduced the flex length to 65mm and with the torque action of the blades on the tie bar joint (similar to a slip), it's suddenly become quite stiff.  I'm sure a Tortoise motor will cope with it with a stiff action rod, but I would like to reduce the switching force if possible.

 

Would just one joint at A be sufficient?

 

I could move the rail break to C, but that would take it inside the check rails and may look strange.  This would allow me to move the joint at A back one sleeper and increase the flex length.

 

Any ideas?

 

A crossing angle of 7 is probably on the cusp of a fixed/switched crossing, so I guess I could make it a fixed crossing anyway if all else fails.

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by gordon s