Eastwood Town - A tribute to Gordon's modelling.

[Welly]

It's fascinating to see how little trackwork were actually controlled by each box - maybe these can offer modellers a chance to do a mainline layout in a small space?

[gordon s]

You're right, though a quick look at this OS map shows at least 4 signal boxes at Finsbury Park....so you could get four layouts out of it...

 

One each and then we could all get together at weekends.  Worked when I was at school....

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18&lat=51.5642&lon=-0.1060&layers=173&b=1

[LNERGE]

Finsbury Park had eight boxes. FP1 to 7 and Ashburton Grove. FP7 was the most northerly up on the Highgate line.

[LNERGE]

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by LNERGE

[St Enodoc]

Hi Gordon,

 

When I suggested using a 20p coin (1.8mm) to set the switch opening for 4-SF (00-SF), the assumption was that the track gauge through the switch would be 16.2mm. I believe you use 16.5mm gauge through the switches? In which case you need a slightly wider opening around 2.1mm. Which just happens to be the thickness of a new 10p coin (the older ones are thinner).

 

regards,

 

Martin.

I'll need to measure some of our coins I think...

 

As I mentioned earlier, I use a slightly bigger opening - 2.4 mm nominal, which is the thickness of two SMP sleepers. I put one each side to centre the blades when marking out and fitting tiebars/stretchers.

[gordon s]

Morning guys, been a busy week one way or another.  It was our wedding anniversary yesterday, so off we went to West Wittering to walk the dogs and boy, was it cold.  Don't be fooled by the sunshine.  It was around three degrees, but with the wind chill factor it must have been several degrees below freezing.  Despite numerous layers of thermal clothing, the cold had to be felt and despite a decent pub lunch, I was still cold until I got home...

 

 

...but back to ET and another week of action.

 

The down slope from ET to the shed area proved to be a large chunk of wood that seemed to have a mind of its own.  Having played around with gradients in the past, I'm keen to eliminate the slope/flat/slope appearance of a long gradient, so joined all the trackbeds together and fixed them in place with large blocks on the top side.  These hold the adjacent trackbeds true to each other and will then allow me to fix riser blocks under the trackbed before finally removing the top surface blocks.  These also gave considerable strength to the narrow trackbeds and allowed me to move them around without the boards cracking across the joints.

 

I can tell you moving something like this around after track laying was a major exercise on its own, but thankfully it's now back in place. 

 

 

It will still have to come out again for wiring, but at least I will be able to mark places to avoid under the boards, before tacking the power bus down.  Of course I could have done that first, but I'd rather concentrate on getting a loop complete before deviating too far into other areas of the layout.

 

This is the latest set of pics.

 

Looking up the line towards ET.  There is still some minor alignment issues to deal with, but at least it's starting to take shape.

 

 

In the opposite direct, the single line from ET branches into two.  The left line will go to a four road diesel shed/refuelling point and the right to the steam shed.

 

 

The diagonal line, yet to be built will crossover to a second goods facility.  Right now this is shown as parallel tracks on 50mm centres on the plan, but this will change as the plan develops.

 

 

This takes me around 50% of the complete loops, so things are moving ahead.  Looking forward to seeing one loco make a complete circuit.....

Edited December 1, 2017 by gordon s

[Siberian Snooper]

Once you get going, you don't hang about much, do you. Some nice flowing S & C construction.

[FJ1701]

Morning guys, been a busy week one way or another.  It was our wedding anniversary yesterday, so off we went to West Wittering to walk the dogs and boy, was it cold.  Don't be fooled by the sunshine.  It was around three degrees, but with the wind chill factor it must have been several degrees below freezing.  Despite numerous layers of thermal clothing, the cold had to be felt and despite a decent pub lunch, I was still cold until I got home...

 

IMG_3208.jpg

 

...but back to ET and another week of action.

 

The down slope from ET to the shed area proved to be a large chunk of wood that seemed to have a mind of its own.  Having played around with gradients in the past, I'm keen to eliminate the slope/flat/slope appearance of a long gradient, so joined all the trackbeds together and fixed them in place with large blocks on the top side.  These hold the adjacent trackbeds true to each other and will then allow me to fix riser blocks under the trackbed before finally removing the top surface blocks.  These also gave considerable strength to the narrow trackbeds and allowed me to move them around without the boards cracking across the joints.

 

I can tell you moving something like this around after track laying was a major exercise on its own, but thankfully it's now back in place. 

 

DSCF8896.jpg

 

It will still have to come out again for wiring, but at least I will be able to mark places to avoid under the boards, before tacking the power bus down.  Of course I could have done that first, but I'd rather concentrate on getting a loop complete before deviating too far into other areas of the layout.

 

This is the latest set of pics.

 

Looking up the line towards ET.  There is still some minor alignment issues to deal with, but at least it's starting to take shape.

 

DSCF8914.jpg

 

In the opposite direct, the single line from ET branches into two.  The left line will go to a four road diesel shed/refuelling point and the right to the steam shed.

 

DSCF8913 (1).jpg

 

The diagonal line, yet to be built will crossover to a second goods facility.  Right now this is shown as parallel tracks on 50mm centres on the plan, but this will change as the plan develops.

 

DSCF8916.jpg

 

This takes me around 50% of the complete loops, so things are moving ahead.  Looking forward to seeing one loco make a complete circuit.....

 

That's funny, I'm actually basing my layout on West Wittering, if only there were a railway there  . Fantastic progress on the railway, I'm a big fan of the dive under concept and should make for some great running sessions.

Edited December 1, 2017 by FJ1701

[LNER4479]

Looking forward to seeing one loco make a complete circuit.....

... as indeed are the rest of us!

[gordon s]

Thanks SS, but compared to others I'm a complete tortoise...and I don't mean a point motor...

 

With jobs around the house to do, I tend to only work for a couple of hours at a time.  This particular set of boards seems to have taken forever, yet looking back it would appear that work didn't start until the 21st November, so probably the  reality is completely different.  One of the reasons I scribble on here is to try and keep a log of what progress is being made as it's oh so easy to think you're going backwards.

 

So some more pointwork to build and it will be great sitting down again for a few days with my soldering and a stack of 10p coins....

 

I still have fond memories of a J15 shunting 16 tonner's in Palmers Green yard and I'd completely forgotten that Hornby came out with one until I saw one in Larry's thread, Carrog.  God, it's tempting.....

Edited December 1, 2017 by gordon s

[gordon s]

That's funny, I'm actually basing my layout on West Wittering, if only there were a railway there  . Fantastic progress on the railway, I'm a big fan of the dive under concept and should make for some great running sessions.

 

 

I did see that a week or so back and will look forward to seeing that develop.  As kids, my parents took us to holiday camps on Hayling Island and I clearly recall the trip to Havant to change trains and then go back and across the old rickety bridge to Hayling.

 

My SiL and BiL live in Selsey and West Wittering is our favourite place to walk our two.  We met up with them and their two dogs for a walk before a pub lunch in The Lamb.  

 

There was a point with the wind really blowing and the sand blowing across the beach that we could have been in Antarctica.  I had two pairs of trousers on, a shirt plus three jumpers and a jacket, two pairs of thermal gloves, a scarf and a thermal wooly hat and it was still cold.  Surprised I could move, let alone walk....

 

Despite the cold, it's still a special place with a wide open beach and dunes where you can shelter.  Wonderful place when the tide is out, but it can be treacherous for swimmers with fast tides and the possibility of being stranded as the tide comes in behind you.

 

Here's something might interest you.  My wife's cousin's son recently got his helicopter licence and took me up from Goodwood over West Wittering and across to the Isle of Wight.  Great way to spend a couple of hours!

 

[Andrew P]

I did see that a week or so back and will look forward to seeing that develop.  As kids, my parents took us to holiday camps on Hayling Island and I clearly recall the trip to Havant to change trains and then go back and across the old rickety bridge to Hayling.

 

My SiL and BiL live in Selsey and West Wittering is our favourite place to walk our two.  We met up with them and their two dogs for a walk before a pub lunch in The Lamb.  

 

There was a point with the wind really blowing and the sand blowing across the beach that we could have been in Antarctica.  I had two pairs of trousers on, a shirt plus three jumpers and a jacket, two pairs of thermal gloves, a scarf and a thermal wooly hat and it was still cold.  Surprised I could move, let alone walk....

 

Despite the cold, it's still a special place with a wide open beach and dunes where you can shelter.  Wonderful place when the tide is out, but it can be treacherous for swimmers with fast tides and the possibility of being stranded as the tide comes in behind you.

 

Here's something might interest you.  My wife's cousin's son recently got his helicopter licence and took me up from Goodwood over West Wittering and across to the Isle of Wight.  Great way to spend a couple of hours!

 

DSCF8321.jpg

I had a Flying Lesson out of Goodwood when we lived down there, we were delayed going up due to low cloud and eventually got away, whilst going over Selsey we were called back in again due to the low cloud. My Pilot took over and we had to do about 3 circuits as we couldn't see the Airfield, glad to say we eventually got down safely and able to tell the tale.

 

Looks like it was a nice trip Gordon.

 

Loving the work on ET as well.

[Andrew P]

Morning guys, been a busy week one way or another.  It was our wedding anniversary yesterday, so off we went to West Wittering to walk the dogs and boy, was it cold.  Don't be fooled by the sunshine.  It was around three degrees, but with the wind chill factor it must have been several degrees below freezing.  Despite numerous layers of thermal clothing, the cold had to be felt and despite a decent pub lunch, I was still cold until I got home...

 

IMG_3208.jpg

 

...but back to ET and another week of action.

 

The down slope from ET to the shed area proved to be a large chunk of wood that seemed to have a mind of its own.  Having played around with gradients in the past, I'm keen to eliminate the slope/flat/slope appearance of a long gradient, so joined all the trackbeds together and fixed them in place with large blocks on the top side.  These hold the adjacent trackbeds true to each other and will then allow me to fix riser blocks under the trackbed before finally removing the top surface blocks.  These also gave considerable strength to the narrow trackbeds and allowed me to move them around without the boards cracking across the joints.

 

I can tell you moving something like this around after track laying was a major exercise on its own, but thankfully it's now back in place. 

 

DSCF8896.jpg

 

It will still have to come out again for wiring, but at least I will be able to mark places to avoid under the boards, before tacking the power bus down.  Of course I could have done that first, but I'd rather concentrate on getting a loop complete before deviating too far into other areas of the layout.

 

This is the latest set of pics.

 

Looking up the line towards ET.  There is still some minor alignment issues to deal with, but at least it's starting to take shape.

 

DSCF8914.jpg

 

In the opposite direct, the single line from ET branches into two.  The left line will go to a four road diesel shed/refuelling point and the right to the steam shed.

 

DSCF8913 (1).jpg

 

The diagonal line, yet to be built will crossover to a second goods facility.  Right now this is shown as parallel tracks on 50mm centres on the plan, but this will change as the plan develops.

 

DSCF8916.jpg

 

This takes me around 50% of the complete loops, so things are moving ahead.  Looking forward to seeing one loco make a complete circuit.....

That's a lot of Ballasting to come Gordon.    

[Siberian Snooper]

 

I still have fond memories of a J15 shunting 16 tonner's in Palmers Green yard and I'd completely forgotten that Hornby came out with one until I saw one in Larry's thread, Carrog.  God, it's tempting.....

Resistance is futile.

[islandbridgejct]

Resistance is futile.

I'm sure that was Dent.

[Regularity]

I'm sure that was Dent.

Close, but “futile” was the Borg.

Vogons said, “Resistance is useless.”

[Dragonboy]

Close, but “futile” was the Borg.

Vogons said, “Resistance is useless.”

7 of 9 in fact. And really who would resist

[Regularity]

7 of 9 in fact. And really who would resist

Resistance is non-existent?

[Simon Hartshorne]

Forgot to add this link. How about this map from the 1870's of Kings Cross....

 

There were a lot of changes made way before my time, but interesting to see how it was originally. Never seen so many wagon turntables...

 

Click on the image to enlarge.

 

https://d240vprofozpi.cloudfront.net/co/GNR/kingsx_map1874.png

 

How did the coal shoots work (bottom centre)?

 

There is an excellent book of Kings Cross station loaded with photos which contains a good few of the coal drops. You should get it if you haven’t already. It’s an excellent accompaniment to the two about the Great Northern infrastructure published a couple of years ago.

 

They appear to have some form of traverser with just a couple of tracks feeding twenty or so.....

Edited December 2, 2017 by Simon Hartshorne

[Regularity]

Back on track, but when was the most recent, or failing that the most relevant, layout plan posted?

[gordon s]

Back on track, but when was the most recent, or failing that the most relevant, layout plan posted?

 

See post 3194.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/3422-eastwood-town-off-we-go-round-the-bend/page-128

[Regularity]

Thank you. I am not totally clear on the levels, etc, but I imagine that this will become apparent soon enough.

[gordon s]

No need to worry about levels as past experience has taught me that multi level layouts and in particular, under board clearance issues plus the necessary gradients to go up or down, takes a lot of skill and a lot of space if disappointment is not to be the final outcome.  Previous attempts at trying to build multi level versions of ET have simply reinforced the feeling that 3D planning is probably outside my current skill level and I decided to duck those issues completely.

 

ET is all on one level, apart from the single down gradient to the shed/MPD which is a 1:80 gradient.  This won't be an issue as it will only be used by light locos or a short coal train for the coaling tower.

 

Experience has shown that steam loco's with seven coaches or more will struggle on long gradients, particularly when you add curves into the equation.  Earlier versions of ET started with gradients of 1:50, but the loss of speed with steam locos and the wheelspin issues on start up mid gradient all brought that number into question.  Eventually I decided to adopt 1:100 to be safe. Some may say this was an arbitrary number as it wasn't based on exhaustive tests, but it did solve the problem.  More modern layouts will be able to get away with steeper gradients as diesel locos with their higher weight and multi drive axles simply sailed up gradients that traditional steam struggled with.  Of course it wasn't all steam loco's, but it was something I wanted to avoid.

 

Perhaps now is the time to explain my somewhat unusual baseboard construction.  After problems with hand made pointwork and solenoid motors, the decision was taken to standardise on Tortoise motors.  No regrets on that front, other than they are 82mm deep and that brings another raft of problems in avoiding cross braces of the support framework.  Many moons ago, I played around with Brilliant Baseboards to save time.  They were a great concept and I know others use them very successfully, but with their multi cross brace construction, Tortoise motors were always fouling the ply frames and they had to be extensively cut away to provide clearance.

 

Thinking about this, I came up with the idea of having a basic simple frame to support trackbed modules.  These modules would have side pieces deeper than Tortoise motors to resolve the clearance issue and provide a rigid, flat trackbed without the roller coaster appearance I had seen in the past where the ply trackbed dipped between the supports no matter how close they were.  The major bonus though is that under bridges and scenery could be easily taken above and below track level to eliminate any appearance of a 'flat earth' location.

 

The trackbed is always level around the whole circuit and it will be the scenery that will go up and down.

 

They say a picture paints a thousand words, so here's what I mean...several times....:-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

That should give some idea of what the final product should look like.  Lots of ups and downs on the scenic side, with a hopefully, flat track bed running through the whole thing.

 

 

[Regularity]

Thanks for that.

 

This is, in many ways, quite similar to Jas Millham’s approach to building baseboards on his Yaxbury Branch. The core strength of them comes from the trackbed, which is an inverted U with the width varying according to need, but the depth of the channel remaining constant, with hole cut into it to allow for bridges, etc. This is held off the floor by a lightweight metal frame, set at the lower level of the channels, to which scenic profiles etc are screwed with self-tapping screws.

 

He got the idea, iirc, at a presentation/lecture at the MRC in the 70s given by Leslie Bevis-Smith and Tim Watson: if you look at Copenhagen Fields, the baseboards were also built along these lines, and this also can provide the basis for scenic sections to be added in a “jig saw” manner, possibly using foam board to keep the weight down.

 

But that was all developed using thin, small sections of plywood for portable, exhibition layouts. You are taking this to another level, to create what all layouts need and only home/permanent layouts can achieve: a good, solid, rigid and strong base. In the USA, they typically use ¾” ot 1” ply for the “subroadbed”, placed onto risers from a solid frame of 1”x4” pse, or ply ripped into 4” wide strips.

 

I like the long leads and large crossings on the transition curves. As has been said by Iain Rice in MRJ 259, and discussed in the thread about it, from a distance of 3’ or more, the fact that this is 00 is as unnoticeable as it is irrelevant. It is possible to distinguish it from P4, if you gave an eye for these things (it’s the flangeways) but you have to get closer to work out if it is EM or 00. I am thinking of the photos in post 3176. I suspect the sleepers are 34mm long, I.e. a scale 8’6”, and as such extend beyond the rails in a manner similar to 9’ (pre-grouping length) sleepers, but they look a bit too long in proportion to the track gauge, which is the only “giveaway” in some of the closer photos.

 

Please don’t take that as a criticism: more an observation from someone is a trackwork nerd. I wonder if the best thing to do with improving the “look” of 00 gauge track would be to model the sleepers, timbers, etc to H0 scale, to keep these features in proportion to the gauge? Not suggesting that you rip it up and start again - it looks very good already - but just sharing the thought that the photos provoked, in case it helps someone about to commence a finescale 00 layout wants to do that bit more to fool the eye in everything but a head-on shot?

Addendum: Once the ballast is in place, the discrepancy in proportion is probably less noticeable.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Regularity

[gordon s]

I guess I must lead a pretty sheltered life as I hadn't seen others using a similar construction technique.  It's quite reassuring to know that others had gone down a similar route and it has proven successful.  Funnily enough I was thinking the other day that whist the timber frame is necessary to support the track modules, metal shelving/racking systems could equally be used and with their higher strength factors, the span between support legs could be increased considerably.  Right now mine are on 1200mm centres as that is the size of a sheet of ply once cut into four to fit in the back of my estate car.

 

Dexion used to be the by word back in my day, but there are numerous industrial racking systems around that could provide a solid base.

 

It's well known that I'm a advocate/convert of Templot and sleeper lengths etc are chosen/default within the programme.  I have no doubt that if I delved into the programme, I could find the various options, but I'm all for an easy life, so just use the defaults for 00-SF.  In essence isn't that what Peco did (and still do in some ranges)?  Take a prototype product and accept that 00 track scales to just over 4'1" gauge.  Then you simply scale everything down to maintain proportions of each constituent part to the other.

 

Don't worry, I never take comments as criticism unless they troll based and those can be ignored.  00 in whatever shape of form will always be a compromise and any head on shot will immediately show the narrow gauge and wide tread wheels.  I guess I just took the easiest route for my personal skill level as it can be incredibly frustrating to invest time and money into something that is beyond your skill level or miles outside your available time.  One thing ET brings home time and time again is just how long even the simplest tasks can take to do.  Cutting corners is not really an option as you usually end up with an even bigger problem down the line, if you don't deal with things at the front end.

 

This time round the emphasis is getting something to run so track painting and ballasting can wait until later.  The exception is the paintwork where the basic ballasting process is undertaken at the installation stage.  Just a personal preference having cocked up so many hand built turnouts with a mix of PVA and ballast in all the areas it shouldn't be.

 

I'm trying not to modify the track plan as I go along as that has been my undoing in the past, however minor changes have been incorporated since the first doodles of this plan months ago.

 

As always, thanks for your input and the comments from others.  It is always appreciated and good to know you're not talking to yourself.....:-)