dajt Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Hi all, As mentioned in my cheap and cheerful points topic I don't think I can live with code 100 FB rail or any other HO scale track on an OO layout (yes, I know it is ridiculous to accept OO gauge in 4mm). So I'm thinking I'd like to make the track using something like code 75 BH rail and PCB sleepers. I'm not interested in using functional chairs glued to sleepers. The cost of building track that way seems pretty expensive. So I want to buy rail and PCB sleepers for both plain track and turnout timbering, preferably from one supplier as it needs to come to Australia. Any suggestions who might do all that? I don't think C+L do PCB plain track sleepers, or at least I couldn't find them on their site. Regards, David Taylor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Vader Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Hi David Try the attached link. When the page opens select 'Manufacaturers' and scro;ll down to the 'SMP' link. SMP Copper Clad Sleepers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb900f Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Hi David, C&L PCB strip is in the bottom section (Fishplates, Tie Bars and Copper Clad Strips) under 4mm components. Have you looked at Exactoscale''s range of track bases ? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWSlack Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Is first cost the only consideration (rhetorical question)? Code 75 bullhead on plastic sleeper bases is available over-the-counter in all three 4mm scale standards. Points cost only about 4h and about £2GBP each in materials to build, whichever way one builds them. Bullhead/copperclad is so 1973....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajt Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Code 75 bullhead on plastic sleeper bases is available over-the-counter in all three 4mm scale standards. Points cost only about 4h and about £2GBP each in materials to build, whichever way one builds them. Bullhead/copperclad is so 1973....... The only track I can buy over the counter within 300km of home is HO scale PECO/Hornby/Atlas stuff. All code 100 too, none of your fancy code 83 or 75... From looking at the various manufacturer's websites I think points would cost much more than £2GBP each for the plastic sleepers and chairs. As for the retro feel of it all, that's partially the point (no pun intended). I love reading the old Railway Modeller magazines from the 70s, and my brother bought me a book about model railways back then which had many of the famous at the time layouts in it, and I'm thinking that might be fun. I can't stomach set-track/streamline track, but I probably could handle blobs of solder as chairs... don't ask why! This is meant to be a relatively quick roundy-roundy layout for running trains and mucking about. That's why I'm going soldered OO track rather than P4, or my real inclination for a layout, S scale. For "filescale" modelling I'm using 7mm:1ft scale, building things to the best of my ability. For playing trains I'm going retro. And I don't want my kids driving my hand-built locos and rolling stock 2nd hand from ebay is where this layout's stock is coming from! There was an article in MRJ at some point where they featured a layout they said had the feel of an old fashioned "model railway" rather than a "model of a railway". I really liked that. Regards, David Taylor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted March 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2011 A true story about PCB track! I have several layouts. When I build something small, I have been known to use individual plastic chairs and wooden sleepers. When I got involved with Narrow Road, which has over 30 points and needed to be built quickly, I decided that rather than the 4 hours per point of individual chairs, I would go for PCB, which I can do in about half that time. When I was plotting another layout, I mentioned to a friend that I would probably go PCB again. This friend, who had operated Narrow Road at probably 10 shows, told me that he thought that would be a backwards step from Narrow Road. He was quite surprised when I told him what the points on that layout were because he genuinely hadn't ever spotted it. Geoff Kent's Blakeney has PCB points and SMP flexible track (as does Roy Jackson's Retford) and quite honestly, if the track is well laid, ballasted and painted, with a slight blob of solder representing the chair on the outside, then the eye is easily fooled. It is not necessarily my own view but somebody once told me that he would rather people look at the buildings, locos and stock than the track, so he made the track as plain and undetailed as possible. It is one of those "no right answer" situations. Each person can decide how much of their modelling time and effort thay want to put in on the track and then decide accordingly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 David You have been told about both SMP and C&L parts, you can add Marcway to the SMP. Marcway nows owns SMP so both products can be brought from them. I use to use SMP copperclad strip on cost grounds, now that the price has increased I use C&L products for the following reasons SMP is made from single sided paxoline and is cut with a guillotine, unfortunatly the width of the strip varies. You cam but fiberglass copperclad sleeper strip from Marcway, but I think they also use a guillotine to cut the strip. C&L use a router to cut the strip, this gives a uniform width to all sleepers and a nice square edge. They use double sided fiberglass PCB, in 2 thicknesses 1.06mm & 1.6mm. in 3.2 & 4mm widths. Well built turnouts, that have had their gaps filled and have been well painted to my mind look far better that track that has H0 scale width timbers and spacing. On time and cost you would be far better off buying Flexi track, both SMP and C&L sell their own brands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajt Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Thanks all. I'll write to C+L to confirm they have both plain track as well as turnout sleepers, because I saw they had what looked like a very good price on 100 yards of rail. Regards, David Taylor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajt Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Geoff Kent's Blakeney has PCB points and SMP flexible track (as does Roy Jackson's Retford) and quite honestly, if the track is well laid, ballasted and painted, with a slight blob of solder representing the chair on the outside, then the eye is easily fooled. It is not necessarily my own view but somebody once told me that he would rather people look at the buildings, locos and stock than the track, so he made the track as plain and undetailed as possible. It is one of those "no right answer" situations. Each person can decide how much of their modelling time and effort thay want to put in on the track and then decide accordingly. It does still seem pretty common, doesn't it? I was looking at an RMWeb post the other night, someone is building a large OO layout in his loft using PCB track and it looks fantastic. I can't recall the thread but the layout has lots of stone walls and is urban in setting. Much of the discussion involved the use of templot. But for PCB OO gauge, it's damned good. Regards, David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Thanks all. I'll write to C+L to confirm they have both plain track as well as turnout sleepers, because I saw they had what looked like a very good price on 100 yards of rail. Regards, David Taylor. The 3.33mm wide is normal sleepering (10") with 4mm for p&c (12"). 4ZC101B Copperclad strips 17" x 4mm x 1.06mm - 10 £6.80 4ZC101C Copperclad strips 17" x 4mm x 1.6mm - 10 £6.80 4ZC101D Copperclad strips 17" x 3.3mm x 1.6mm - 10 £6.80 4ZC101E Copperclad strips 17" x 3.3mm x 1.06mm - 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 It does still seem pretty common, doesn't it? I was looking at an RMWeb post the other night, someone is building a large OO layout in his loft using PCB track and it looks fantastic. I can't recall the thread but the layout has lots of stone walls and is urban in setting. Much of the discussion involved the use of templot. But for PCB OO gauge, it's damned good. Regards, David. I believe that the post you are referring to is Eastwood Town link as below; http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/3422-eastwood-town-update/ This is truly an amazing site, and well worth a visit. With regard to PCB sleepers and building points check out this web site. I purchased one of their fixtures and frog forming tools and after my first few attempts, I can now build a point in about 1 hour. http://www.handlaidtrack.com/ho-scale-a/145.htm Best regards, Tom D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajt Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 The 3.33mm wide is normal sleepering (10") with 4mm for p&c (12"). 4ZC101B Copperclad strips 17" x 4mm x 1.06mm - 10 £6.80 4ZC101C Copperclad strips 17" x 4mm x 1.6mm - 10 £6.80 4ZC101D Copperclad strips 17" x 3.3mm x 1.6mm - 10 £6.80 4ZC101E Copperclad strips 17" x 3.3mm x 1.06mm - 10 Thanks. I saw those, which I assume are for turnout timbers - cutting plain track sleepers from them would be tedious. I can use the 1.6mm if I also decide to use their flextrack, but at about $13AUD / length (4FT101A/B), that's crazy. Anyway, never mind. I'll probably buy the rail from C+L with that 100m price, and maybe Wizard for the sleepers. Regards, David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Clanger Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 ....and maybe Wizard for the sleepers. Regards, David. Then you'd better hurry up - I have only 600 left (effectively 2 x 300), and won't be restocking them, for reasons alluded to above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I believe that the post you are referring to is Eastwood Town link as below; http://www.rmweb.co....od-town-update/ This is truly an amazing site, and well worth a visit. With regard to PCB sleepers and building points check out this web site. I purchased one of their fixtures and frog forming tools and after my first few attempts, I can now build a point in about 1 hour. http://www.handlaidt...scale-a/145.htm Best regards, Tom D Good grief guys, that caught me by surprise.... Thanks for the compliments. If there is anything I can do to add to the discussion, feel free to ask away. In real simple terms, Eastwood uses SMP plain track and C & L components for the pointwork. The whole thing is laid out on Templot and it's under construction as we speak. I have an Antex temperature controlled iron and use 60/40 tin/lead solder. I rarely use flux other than that in the solder, although if called upon, I use Carr's Orange flux. I clean all the PCB strip maunually with a glass fibre pen and that seems fine. All my pointwork is built on Templot templates and they are washed in hot soapy water before laying on 1/8" cork strip... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajt Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 An update on this topic. I found a supplier in NZ who sells 100 metre packs of code 75 bullhead rail, and will cut (and gap) PCB sleepers to your requirements, plus has lengths for turnout timbers. All for about 1/2 the cost of what I think it was going to cost from the UK. There was a hold-up on the delivery of a few weeks, but for the cost and the "sleepers to your requirements" service I am not at all upset by that. The package has just arrived and it all looks present and correct. A much better and cheaper outcome than I expected when I first asked the question! Regards, David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted June 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 7, 2011 I found a supplier in NZ who sells 100 metre packs of code 75 bullhead rail, and will cut (and gap) PCB sleepers to your requirements, plus has lengths for turnout timbers. All for about 1/2 the cost of what I think it was going to cost from the UK. Regards, David. Hi David, The pre-gapped PCB Sleepers sound interesting. Can you tell us more please, such as: 1. What thickness are the sleepers? 2. Are they single or double sided? 3. What dimensions (and how uniform?) are they please? 4. What do they cost please? Obviously postage to the UK instead of Oz. will vary I guess. Many thanks. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajt Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 1. What thickness are the sleepers? 1.6mm thick. 2. Are they single or double sided? Single sided. 3. What dimensions (and how uniform?) are they please? I asked for 34mm x 3.3mm. From a random sample of 10, I found: 1 of 3.1 1 of 3.2 7 of 3.3 1 of 3.4 6 of 34.0 3 of 34.1 1 of 34.2 4. What do they cost please? Obviously postage to the UK instead of Oz. will vary I guess. I was charged 11c per sleeper, 10c for the sleeper, 10% for the gapping. The price may vary depending on the quantity ordered. The turnout timber material was 75c per approx 300mm length (mine seem to be about 290mm). This is for 1.6 x 4mm PCB. I was charged about $87 for 100 lengths of rail. All prices are in NZ currency. In the end I paid $150 AUD for 100 lengths of rail, 1000 sleepers, and 20 lengths of turnout timbers. I was able to give the sleeper dimensions I wanted because he (Paul) mills them to spec. These came from http://www.woodsworks.co.nz/ . I was very impressed with the service. Edit: I just checked what the same stuff from C+L would have cost and it came to 92 GBP before shipping. This converted to $141 AUD, and I can guess shipping would be around $20 AUD. So I didn't actually get the bargain I thought, HOWEVER I did get pregapped sleepers, was able to specify the dimensions, and was able to get it from much closer to home and save on postage. As it didn't cost me more than it would have from the UK, I still believe I came out ahead and will go back to Paul if I need more stuff in future. Regards, David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted June 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hi David, Many thanks for the reply - I'll take a look at the website. Kind Regards, Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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