Michael Delamar Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 hi chaps could someone please give me some rough figures on what loco owners charge preserved railways for using their locos on hire? I realise its all different between each line and owner group but rough figures from say the small industrial locos to big crowd pullers. cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bayford Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I know that an ex GWR 0-6-2 is about £700 but that was a year or so ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Is that per day, shift, turn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 With some railways part of the hire charge goes by a mileage rate. If memory serves, a few years back the NYMR mileage rate was £8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Would I be right in thinking that the railway would supply all consumables - coal, water, oil, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Do any railways do some sort of arrangement whereby they get to use the loco for free but in return do some maintenance/repairs on it? I have a vague memory that the Watercress line had Lord Nelson from the NRM under this type of arrangement but I would not swear to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 James, Yes they would, quite a standard deal in most chartering cases (even those outwith the railway industry). Karhedron, There have been quite a few cases like that over the years where a railway overhauls a locomotive in exchange or in part exchange for an overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 does it depend on the time of year also? so what would something like a jinty cost for say a whole year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 There's also storage/garaging costs potentially due from the loco owners to the host railway to include in the equation... I don't know precise details of arrangements for any standard gauge lines, but in one case of a narrow gauge loco I know of, no money changes hands either way. In return for housing the loco on site plus carrying out any routine maintenance required to keep the loco in servicable condition, the railway can use the loco for up to a set number of days per year. (was 80 days in 2009 may have changed since...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 The prestigious Haydock Foundry loco 'Bellerophon' commands around £400-£500 per steaming day when out on hire from its home base at Foxfield, other industrial locos are anywhere between £250-£500 depending on the loco and work involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 TBH there are probably no two deals the same. As has been mentioned,there are "bed n board" deals where a line will get use of a loco in return for giving it a home and maintainance. 60009 spent quite some time on the SVR after they gave it a major ovehaul. Some lines charge the loco owners for these services, leaving the owners to do hat they like with their locos (hire it out, move it etc) Also there are a lot of locos that are rebuilt and maintained by lines for their own use, these locos are often hired to other lines to help out in times of shortages, or to provide guest locos at galas. there has to be a balancing act in this though as the line that has invested all their time and money into getting it running would want to make use of their own investment. On the other hand, the lure of income from hiring out a loco can be great too, Morayshire nad the standard tank from Bo'ness spring to mind. Visiting locos like Tornado can attract a premium as they will pull in great numbers to a lines gala. You pays your money, you takes your choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 14, 2011 As I wrote some of the first ever hire agreeements used on preserved/heritage railways all I can say is that things vary enormously We (the organisation I was a volunteer with at that time) believed in making a professional arrangement and accordingly put in placea proper written contract if someone hired one of our locos - there was a rate based, usually, on a weekly charge and the hirer paid for all consumables & insurance etc and was responsible for servicing while the loco was on their railway but if a fault developed that was down to use or was a bigger or safety item we went and repaired it. The arrangement worked petty well and in fact early in privitisation days when we were getting into loco hire to other ooerators I used what was basically the same form of contract - it also worked like a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Daily rates that spring to mind vary from £200 to £2000 as of 2011, the host railway provides all daily consumables. NRM steam locos tend to be at the top end of the scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Now that you have got an idea of some of the costs in hiring a loco you will also need to consider the transportation cost in getting it to the railway hiring it. Some hauliers will want there to be railway staff on hand at the time of delivery/collection but others can and will leave/pickup a loco on their own as famously happened at Middleton Railway. We turned up to find an ex LMS 350hp diesel shunter parked on the track in the car park. Delivered overnight by a haulier that had a key to the yard! Should have gone to Hunslet Engine not our address in Hunslet! (Sorry to digress.) Some railways have unwritten agreements that if you lend me a loco we will lend you one and the only cost is the transportation (plus obvious consumables). To save weight etc most loco boilers/tanks are drained of water and no coal left in the bunker before transporting espescially by road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Moss Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Our Jinty, 47327 that is currently working as Thomas brings in about £750 per steaming day when on hire. Its earning more than 73129. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60B Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Our Jinty, 47327 that is currently working as Thomas brings in about £750 per steaming day when on hire. Its earning more than 73129. But Thomas is a different kettle of fish as there are liscencing costs and the popularity of Thomas means a higher price can be commanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Our Jinty, 47327 that is currently working as Thomas brings in about £750 per steaming day when on hire. Its earning more than 73129. Hopefully without identifying the railway concerned, a "Jinty" masquerading as "Thomas" was recently cited to me as an example of over-charging for a small locomotive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 thanks guys my reason for asking, my interest was ignited when I heard that Peak rail had hired in another Austerity saddle tank called Lord Phil. so they have there own and another of the same class hired, the only reason I could come to was cost, but also maybe politics? and could also be a weight problem with bridge 35 which appears to be in a bad way. I wondered why they couldnt go for something a little bit bigger than the austerity, like an ex BR loco, even something like a Jinty or a class 2 tender loco like an ivatt, something that would have been on the line in steam days, think 4f, black 5's etc. they did have a problem with no covered engine shed which was said to be offputting to owners but now have a brand new loco shed. I also believe that Lord Phil actually failed this week which is why the special weekend this easter was cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 26, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 26, 2011 thanks guys my reason for asking, my interest was ignited when I heard that Peak rail had hired in another Austerity saddle tank called Lord Phil. so they have there own and another of the same class hired, the only reason I could come to was cost, but also maybe politics? and could also be a weight problem with bridge 35 which appears to be in a bad way. I wondered why they couldnt go for something a little bit bigger than the austerity, like an ex BR loco, even something like a Jinty or a class 2 tender loco like an ivatt, something that would have been on the line in steam days, think 4f, black 5's etc. they did have a problem with no covered engine shed which was said to be offputting to owners but now have a brand new loco shed. I also believe that Lord Phil actually failed this week which is why the special weekend this easter was cancelled. There could be any number of reasons - varying from 'it was the only thing they could get' to 'it was the only thing they could afford' to 'it was the only loco anyone was prepared to hire to them' (because at least they would know how an Austerity'works and would like to be looked after) to (for similar reasons) 'it was the sort of loco they wanted'. No doubt someone on the Railway will know why and might be prepared to explain why? But overall I suspect part of the reason will be a combination of a couple of the points I listed - although a number of Railways have (and probably still do) used Austerities they are not ideal locos for passenger trains but they are simple and reliable (and often available). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I also believe that Lord Phil actually failed this week which is why the special weekend this easter was cancelled. Yup it was dead, someone did mention why but i've forgotten what it was now. The other Austerity was running nicely though. If its tried and tested and the crew are trained on it then makes sense to run two of them. Peak Rail is a really nice line actually with great staff too and the guys around the yard couldn't have been more helpful when I was pottering about with a tape measure and camera. Indeed I seem to have generated a blog post from one of the guys working on D9500 there too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 yeah what I wanted to know was how big the difference in price was, as I had no figures to go by. Peak rail is one of my favourites which Ive followed since I was a kid, its one of my favourites because of the potential it has, id just like to see a few more interesting steam locos there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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