37175 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 For quite a while now I've been researching diesels on the Waverley Route and although now armed with a massive pile of info one of the minor details that's missing is the definitive use of diesel (be it loco or DMU) for the very first time. We all know about D5511 in July 1958, and D5303 in November 1958, but in November 1957 a two-car DMU began trials between Edinburgh & Galashiels via Peebles, commencing as service trains in early January 1958. Does anyone have any other info to contradict that as, although it's a Peebles loop train, it appears to be the earliest I can find? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I believe 'Deltic' ran light over the Waverley in the late '50s en route to Scotland for some testing. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I believe 'Deltic' ran light over the Waverley in the late '50s en route to Scotland for some testing. Dave. Indeed she did, and there's an epic photo of her at [Holy Grail effect on] Leith Central Diesel Depot [Holy Grail effect off] having worked over the line. It's buried somewhere in the WR images thread. I plan to start decanting that resource's contents about this Group as appropriate, so it will rightfully find a home here. I wonder what the DMU was - need to dig out one of the standard bog-cart texts and see if that sheds light.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I wonder what the DMU was - need to dig out one of the standard bog-cart texts and see if that sheds light.... The earliest photo that I can find from a quick search of the reading room is from June 1958 and that shows a Class 100 GRCW two car set. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37175 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 I believe 'Deltic' ran light over the Waverley in the late '50s en route to Scotland for some testing. Dave. Aye, but that was June 1959 ... a full year and a half after the possible first diesel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Two of the Pilot Scheme Peaks worked over the route. Although I can't recall the date of the contemporary magazines at present, I suggest it must have been in their first flush of (passenger) youth, or testing, perhaps.... Given that NBL product was occasionally delivered by this (diversionary) route, is there a possibility of some other early diesel appearances, do we think...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 The Peaks worked through Carlisle on West Coast diagrams in 1959-60 if that helps. Perhaps they were borrowed at some point when the deployment of their younger sisters on the route was being considered. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Remembered the thrust of this thread and thought I had found something when on the scot-rail.co.uk forum I stumbled on a picture of D5511 at Hawick waiting to leave for Carlisle on 27/07/58. So come back to the thread and then see I'm meant to know all about it anyway! For those signed up to scot-rail the picture, for what it is worth, is at: http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photo/scaled/8653/ Cheers, 26power For quite a while now I've been researching diesels on the Waverley Route and although now armed with a massive pile of info one of the minor details that's missing is the definitive use of diesel (be it loco or DMU) for the very first time. We all know about D5511 in July 1958, and D5303 in November 1958, but in November 1957 a two-car DMU began trials between Edinburgh & Galashiels via Peebles, commencing as service trains in early January 1958. Does anyone have any other info to contradict that as, although it's a Peebles loop train, it appears to be the earliest I can find? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37175 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Remembered the thrust of this thread and thought I had found something when on the scot-rail.co.uk forum I stumbled on a picture of D5511 at Hawick waiting to leave for Carlisle on 27/07/58. So come back to the thread and then see I'm meant to know all about it anyway! For those signed up to scot-rail the picture, for what it is worth, is at: http://www.scot-rail...to/scaled/8653/ It's been mentioned quite a lot on the long discussion thread, with other photos here: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=24644 and http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=29078 As for the elusive ID of the DMU ..................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Oh my. Another photo of it. Hang on, it was all a terrible dream. It was actually Photoshop that was being trialled in Hawick in 1958, otherwise we'd have seen it elsewhere on the route, so we can rest easy again. Phew! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 As for the elusive ID of the DMU ..................... See post 4. It does narrow it down to a very small batch. I am surprised that no body has trumped my offer. There must be a shot some where during the (so far) blank six or seven month period. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 See post 4. It does narrow it down to a very small batch. I am surprised that no body has trumped my offer. There must be a shot some where during the (so far) blank six or seven month period. Bernard Note to self, take the DMU bible to work today and research this in an idle ten minutes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62440 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I'd a phone call last night from a friend I knew long before the closure. He was an enthusiastic 'spotter' in the late 50s at Galashiels. Unfortunately he's not on-line, but I mentioned this topic. He remembers well the arrival of the prototype Deltic in Galashiels, but his friend actually took photos of it. The hunt is on! I also mentioned 5531 and its 1958 visit: again he remembers this clearly, but on the UP return journey. He understood that it made a scheduled "non-timetabled" stop on the 1 in 70 at Tynehead to see what the restarting abilities of the loco were - a Hardengreen banker being available if it failed - but 5531 did manage to pull the train away. Later on he spoke to the driver who said "You could have fried an egg on the outside". I'm meeting him next week in Carlisle, so if you have any questions ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37175 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 See post 4. It does narrow it down to a very small batch. I am surprised that no body has trumped my offer. There must be a shot some where during the (so far) blank six or seven month period. Bernard Sorry, I should have said that after you made that post (4) I tried Googling it as I have no DMU records or books whatsoever, and even Google was unable to provide a list of what was where & when. I don't think I'd be too popular at home if I bought a pile of books on the off chance one of them lists the GRCW 100 DMU locations! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Sorry, I should have said that after you made that post (4) I tried Googling it as I have no DMU records or books whatsoever, and even Google was unable to provide a list of what was where & when. I don't think I'd be too popular at home if I bought a pile of books on the off chance one of them lists the GRCW 100 DMU locations! Yes, one does. Let me fruitle in my Leith Central 64H: home of the Borders DMU blog for the answer... EDIT: Only Class 101 in the blog so far. I am now off to find the bible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shed64a Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I believe 'Deltic' ran light over the Waverley in the late '50s en route to Scotland for some testing. Dave. I found the site that I had seen Deltic whilst at Leith Central, http://www.edinphoto...tral_deltic.htm There are other railway related photos from around the Edinburgh area, some even from Waverley branches. Worth a look. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Saved me a job there, Chris - tidy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62440 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 A few thoughts about DMUs. There may have been an Edinburgh to Glasgow set sent south as a substitute for a failed Hawick local. This happened in 1965 when I was returning to Hawick on a Saturday train. Could such a substitution have happened years earlier? There's a Robin Barbour photo of DMUs stabled at Hawick with Newcastle as destination. When?? A Rambler's excursion?? Perhaps the first venture of a DMU over the Waverley Route was from Riccarton to Hawick. Also, BR ran trips during Trades Fortnights from the Borders. I was on one to Pitlochry in 1962 - it was certainly not a "normal" DMU, I suspect a Glasgow one. When did these specials start, or indeed were they always part - as I suspect - of the scene during local holidays and for special events. But what about the southern end of the line? Was there ever a DMU sent to Langholm? ... I've never heard of one: the only trainspotter I knew from the town never mentioned one when I was researching my book in late 80s. The Parkhouse and Harker workers' trains .. would ever a DMU have worked them as a substitute for a failed steam working in the late 50s? (This is showing my ignorance as I don't know when DMU were introduced around Carlisle.) Bruce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62440 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I've hunted the RailScot site for Robin's photo of the DMU: Here it is: If it's of help in dating it, the previous frame was 62483 Glen Garry looking pretty dead with a piece of slate across its chimney in the sidings next to Burnfoot Cemetery; the following one was 62440 in steam near the engine shed. Bruce just found the entry in his notes: 7 September 1958: Diesel Unit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 The first unit is definitely an NER quad, with the brake being in one of the trailer cars, I'd expect the second to be the same (I think my weary old eyes count 8 cars in total); a Gosforth set would be most likely. ISTR also seeing pics in some book or other of DMUs (possibly a 108) on one of the Borders lines, maybe at Reedsmouth, mid-60s. BTW Carlisle got DMUs very early, the 'West Cumberland' batch of Derby Lightweights being allocated there from around 1955 (possibly even late '54) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Okay, well maybe not technically, but St Margarets gets overlooked and I couldn't resist popping these in this sub-thread: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=34409 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Brilliant! Seen quite a few pics over the years of individual locos around the St Margaret's turntable (just click the St Margaret's link to see some good ones), but don't ever recall seeing one that showed this overview of the site. Bit odd really when there was an overbridge to look from. Cheers, 26power Okay, well maybe not technically, but St Margarets gets overlooked and I couldn't resist popping these in this sub-thread: http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=34409 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 What a fantastic find, Chard! The finest collection of NBL mini-gronkery it has ever been my pleasure to witness! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62440 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Just a thought: has a DMU ever travelled the whole length of the Waverley Route in a single revenue earning service? We had Carlisle to Hawick local working, Edinburgh to Hawick but was there ever a "joined up" one? Bruce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 A fascinating contender for Waverley's Most Wanted, I'd say... Evidently the little beggars could manage the gradients, as the Either End to Teri services bear witness. Indeed, there were other short workings, and the W/T/Ts are riddled with Carlisle - Parkhouse - Harker and Edinburgh - Gorebridge - Borthwick short turnbacks. However, and I imagine it might be influenced by its percieved insulting mundanity, I have never seen reference to a through working. We're fortunate that so many diesel photos exist, and indeed any of DMUs, and against this backdrop would a through working have been treated with contempt..? Not by you Bruce, clearly that you were recording the scene for its broader impact has led in large part to the vast photographic library that we enjoy today! That said, I expect there is a very good chance one has worked vice loco and stock on a semi-fast. Whether it would be the typical power-trailer I doubt. I would imagine it would be a triple or power-twin deputising for a failure, and most probably from the Edinburgh end. The Railcar site is very quiet where the WR is concerned. This is surely one for Matt and the team to pose to the ol' gang! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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