two tone green Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Great result, well done. And I expect you have had lots of fun along the way See you at Members day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted June 26, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 26, 2011 Sadly back to square one! The Windows 7 32-bit system has now had a couple of skipped blocks. Surprisingly I found on the Lenz US web-site there is now a downloadable entry for Windows 7 drivers that is not present on the German or Worldwide sites - http://www.lenzusa.com/1newsite1/LI-USB.html So I tried this on my Windows 7 32-bit build only to have the install process cause a BSOD (blue screen crash) forcing me to run a system repair to get back to the previous restore point. The drivers install OK on my 64-bit system and the system seemed OK, but soon I had a couple of failures. The driver level on this download is 2.06.00 compared to 2.06.02 previously so perhaps there's not much difference. As a last resort I wiped the disk with 32-bit Windows 7 build and instead installed a vanilla XP SP3 system with the drivers from the Lenz-supplied CD. This lasted no more than a couple of minutes before a block was left in use stopping the schedule. I tried to also install the latest 32-bit drivers on XP but this too crashed with the BSOD. I've tried 2 different PCs, three different OS levels and three different levels of the FTDI driver for the LISUB device all to no avail. I'm now convinced the LIUSB device is itself faulty and will be contacting the Lenz agent early next week to see if it can be replaced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Not good and I thought this had been put to bed. I have run RR&Co using my Lenz system via the serial and USB versions of the PC interface on Windows XP and Vista with none of the problems you are experiencing. I have only ever had problems with the ESU Lok Progammer and the supplied USB interface which I replaced to get it to run on Vista. But as we all know, Vista is not very stable. I cannot remember without going back through all the posts, the USB interface is at the same firmware version as the LZV100, LH100 etc. V3.6 being the latest. Come over for a chat at Members Day, will be good to put a face to a name. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted July 13, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2011 Just a quick update of where I'm at. I put in new bus wires - 2.5mm split from B&Q twin-and-earth. Instead of re-soldering all the droppers, I gathered them into 6-way chocblocs at 12-18" intervals. One side of the chocbloc terminals was joined up with spare earth wire, and then connected to the new bus via snaplock connectors and using pieces of 1.5mm cable salvaged from the old bus. I'm very pleased with the result - no soldered joints under the baseboard any more. It's a very robust way of doing it. I've also added extra droppers such that on the storage yard side every piece of rail has a dropper, including the entry and exist points. Not so easy to do this on the scenic side but I've managed a dropper on at least the first and last rails of each block. Things have improved, in particular I'm not seeing blocks missed on the storage yard to anything like the same extent, but there have been a couple of instances. But I'm being plagued with blocks being left allocated - 5 yesterday in one session alone. Also yesterday I moved a train up one block in the storage yard using a train window, and TC didn't see it arrive! I've tried replacing the USB cable, and also re-used a Belkin 4-port USB 2.0 PCI card for the connection (instead of using the motherboard ones), but to no avail. I raised the issue with Lenz a couple of weeks ago to ask if they've seen similar problems that might be due to the LIUSB interface. After all, whenever I have had a problem, the Lenz hardware always has the correct occupancy status, which implies the hardware is working correctly. Their response was that the LIUSB was no longer available, and its replacemant with the LAN access device (item 23151) is at least another 12 weeks away. However, they have offered me a LI101F with RS232 interface to test whether this will resolve the issue. I'm taking up their offer as although my new PC doesn't have a serial connector on the back plate, it does have the 9-pin header on the motherboard, so I just need to get the bracket and connector off Ebay. As soon as I have done some testing with this new interface I'll report back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Hi Did you look at the schedule issues I raised with you at the RM Web get together. I still think that the way you have successors arranged it may well cause some train tracking issues causing skipped blocks, lack of tracking. But there does seem to be another underlying issue as well, odd. I agree about the choc block arrangement under the board, far easier to work with and less solder in your eyes and burnt fingers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted July 14, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2011 I've started looking at schedules but I've had some strange behaviour so I'm really now waiting for the LI101F from Lenz. For example, I was observing closely and saw a train enter the storage yard where it was supposed to stop. The block turned pink immediately so TC had seen it, but I soon realized it wasn't going to stop and I had to hit the emergency stop. But TC thought it had stopped and started its successor schedules. Thereafter I couldn't move the loco with a TC train window but there was no problem with the Lenz throttle. Seems TC could no longer talk to the engine. Later in the day I rebooted using my XP-SP3 system and within 15 minutes the same thing happened again - different engine, different storage road. And then I saw another loco stationary on some pointwork between blocks. It wouldn't move either by me dragging it to another location or by starting it from a TC window. But again no problem with the Lenz throttle. Worked OK after recycling TC. Another problem with schedules may be a bug in TC. Train A leaves block 1 in a storage road and heads out onto the mainline. Train B is in block 2 behind it. When train A clears block 1 (ie reaches the stop marker on the main line block) a release action starts a schedule to move train B up to block 1. I had several failures where train B never moved. What I saw is train A well clear of block 1, and TC allocate the route on the switchboard for train B to move into it. But then block 1 flashed pink momentarily (half a second at most) at which point TC simply said the schedule was complete. This didn't take more than a couple of seconds and of course train B never turned a wheel. It cannot have been a detector since I've got all indicators set to 2-second delay before turning off. Adding a delay to starting the schedule gets round it. I've come to the conclusion that some event corrupts the USB interface and spooks TC, which is why I want to try the LI101F. I'm also wondering whether my problem with long pulses to the LS150s (LS150 Pulse Duration Problems) has been a variation on the same theme. The only common factor throughout has been the LIUSB - everything else has changed. My LIUSB was repaired/replaced by Lenz in May last year after it failed (data light was stuck on permanently) and I think my problems may have started since then - first with the LS150s and then with the automation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Friedman Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 RFS, glad to hear you are edging towards a solution. I have used the Lenz LI101F for around five years without problems. A couple of months ago the HP laptop I used to power RR&co went to the computer graveyard in the cloud and I requisitioned my wife’s old laptop that of course had no serial port so I bought a USB to serial interface and this has worked well. I would be inclined to invest in one of these as they come with the software to set Com ports and all the other comms settings, as should the LI101F, and the two need to be synchronised for port and baud settings etc. If your PC did not have a serial port fitted it may be that the tracks on the motherboard are not connected, with a multi layer pcb board it would be virtually impossible to know, so going to all the trouble of buying and soldering the nine pin connector may just add an extra layer of uncertainty. Anyway, all the best with the serial interface. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted July 15, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2011 Thanks Mike. My PC motherboard does have the 9-pin RS232 header port (COM1), so all I need is the optional cable and bracket to use it such as this off Ebay - RS232 Bracket Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Amazing, you are certainly having a difficult time of it all. Like Mike, I to have used the serial interface and when I upgraded my laptop bought a serial to USB adapter which worked well for years. In fact I have just sold it. If you get no joy with the straight forward serial connection, get adapter which should help. Mine even worked with Windows Vista By the end of all this you will be a Lenz, LDT, RR&Co expert. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted July 26, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2011 Well Lenz eventually sent me the serial LI101F PC interface box to try in place of the suspect LIUSB. After two days of intensive running, Traincontroller has, quite simply, not put a foot wrong. My problems were not limited to status updates from the LDT occupancy detectors being occasionally missed: I've had a couple of incidents where turnouts did not change as expected (they're Tortoise and 100% reliable), 2-3 incidents where TC lost control of the train (it didn't stop despite being detected) and many cases where trains overran the stop-marker, sometimes by 12-18 inches, or did stop but rather abruptly. All of these problems point to status updates from Xpressnet, and commands sent, being occasionally missed. As far as I know the LIUSB is just an LI101F with a USB-to-serial converter chip from FTDI bundled into the same box, and I suspect it's the converter that's the issue. Whether it's hardware or software/firmware I can't say. Looking round the web, these types of devices are sometimes known to cause issues. My PC is a relatively new desktop but still has the RS232 9-pin header, albeit on the motherboard for which I needed to buy the cable and bracket for around £2 off Ebay. In the future I may want to use a laptop which these days doesn't have the serial interface at all, but for now I'm happy. At last I can sit back and watch the trains go by rather than nervously watch the TC switchboard all the time! I'll be feeding back to Lenz and will see what permanent solution they are prepared to offer as the LI101F was sent to me FOC but "for testing". Thanks for all your input on this issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 26, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 26, 2011 As far as I know the LIUSB is just an LI101F with a USB-to-serial converter chip from FTDI bundled into the same box Is it possible to use the drivers direct from FTDI rather than the Lenz supplied ones? The reason I ask is that I have a piece of kit with a data logger containing a USB-serial convertor (CP210X) on board, an RS 232 version is also available. It would not work correctly on my PC with the supplied software package and also not with a later version I downloaded from the firm's website. Rather than wait for customer support to sort it out (they're in the US) I found the drivers on the chip maker's site and downloaded those. It worked perfectly! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted July 26, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2011 Is it possible to use the drivers direct from FTDI rather than the Lenz supplied ones? The reason I ask is that I have a piece of kit with a data logger containing a USB-serial convertor (CP210X) on board, an RS 232 version is also available. It would not work correctly on my PC with the supplied software package and also not with a later version I downloaded from the firm's website. Rather than wait for customer support to sort it out (they're in the US) I found the drivers on the chip maker's site and downloaded those. It worked perfectly! Keith What Lenz supply is the FTDI drivers as-is but with the .inf files updated to add an entry for the LIUSB. Without that update Windows does not associate these drivers with the device. The Lenz site in the US has drivers at level 2.06.00 for Windows 7, but the latest on the FTDI site are 2.08.14. To get them to be used for the LIUSB you need to tweak the .inf files to add an entry for the LIUSB, which is what I did. However this driver level didn't fix my problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 27, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 27, 2011 What Lenz supply is the FTDI drivers as-is but with the .inf files updated to add an entry for the LIUSB. Without that update Windows does not associate these drivers with the device. The Lenz site in the US has drivers at level 2.06.00 for Windows 7, but the latest on the FTDI site are 2.08.14. To get them to be used for the LIUSB you need to tweak the .inf files to add an entry for the LIUSB, which is what I did. However this driver level didn't fix my problems. It was just a wild thought. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted October 1, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2011 Well another update on this issue. For the best part of 2 months I have been running my layout with the LI101F serial adapter that Lenz supplied for me to test in place of the LIUSB device. Despite intensive running over this period (I'm retired now so I have plenty of leisure time!) I have not experienced one single problem with RR&Co Traincontroller. No skipped blocks, no blocks left allocated, no points not firing when expected etc. I did ask Lenz what the permanent solution was and they asked me to return the LIUSB to me for analysis. Despite extensive analysis on their part they could find no fault with the device, so they have returned it to me. However, as a precaution, they returned a different device. I looked inside and it had a sticky label saying "10/2010" so I assume it's fairly new. I have had 4 running sessions with the replacement unit. After two sessions I realized the firmware was not 3.6 level so I flashed it to that level for the remaining two sessions. However, all 4 sessions only lasted 10-15 minutes before problems arose: in the first three a block was left allocated and in the fourth a train skipped the station block requiring me to do an emergency stop to prevent a collision. The fact that the layout runs flawlessly when connected via the serial port proves the problem is not the layout's hardware - wiring, LDT RS8s, LZV100 etc. I plugged the LIUSB into the same Xpressnet port used for the LI101F so the problem must either be the LIUSB device or something with the PC. Somewhere amongst the firmware in the LIUSB, FTDI drivers, USB processing in Windows or Traincontroller itself. I've tried two different PCs, two different versions of Windows (XP and 7) and USB ports both on the motherboard and on a PCI add-on card. All to no avail. The problem must be software. Lenz did offer me the LI101F for free as soon as I raised the issue, so I wonder if there's a known issue with the USB version? I'd like to hear from anyone who's using the LIUSB with Traincontroller and whether they are experiencing similar problems, presumably caused by Xpressnet events being lost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi, I changed over from the serial version to the USB version as soon as it was released with no problems at all. It ran my layout until Xmas 2010 when I changed over to ESU and the ECoS. Shame in some ways you upgraded the firmware to V3.6 as it would have been interesting to see what happened with the mismatch in firmware. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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