Weekday Cross Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Hope the following diagram helps. (Sorry it's a Word document) Lime St Diagram 1911.doc You can see the two turntables which existed during LNWR times. I believe the upper one (which is the basis for your model) was removed well before the end of LMS in 1947. This is the area as modelled by John Holden on his 4mm model of Lime Street, set in 1947/8 Steve. Thanks for that Steve. Lime Street is a truly great layout in the making - I just hope my small corner in 2mm scale comes anywhere near it for quality. John has emailed me with information and encouragement. Dave Pennington has also given me lots of useful information. My modelling periods are only a little mixed up - as much due to time as anything else. We only had 4 months or so to come up with the concept and complete it! I was aware that the turntable was removed in LMS days, but it was part of Jack Nelson's diorama idea which was the inspiration for my model, so I just had to include it. The only things I am aware of that will intentionally be out of era with the turntable are the brick building on St Vincent Street, above the loco shed and the diesel loco. I can find no useful information about St Simon's church, other than a distant view of it in a sketch of Cope's tobacco factory and the plan on old OS maps. I felt I had no alternative but to model the building that replaced it following the church's destruction in WW2. There are at least one or two photographs of that to work from. As for the loco - well I just don't have the time to build any steam locos, so the diesel will have to do! Apologies for getting things wrong, but it is with good reason, I hope! (and now for an edit some time later......) ...Oops - Steve seems to have deleted his post - I hope I didn't offend him!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 I am just eating my lunch before diving into another bout of modelling. Further to my last post, I do welcome comments of any kind - particularly where I might have got things wrong or where new information can be made available to me. In a few cases, I have had to compromise out of sheer necessity - but otherwise I really would like to get things as correct as I can. There are many things I have had to guess at - simply because I had little or no information to work from. So, if anyone knows better than me, please don't be afraid to let me know! The plan is to build the model largely as it would have been in late LNWR days. Just to confirm the compromises I am making to get everything done on time and to fit the rules of the Challenge.... A short part of the station roof should just appear at the left hand side of the diorama - but I think it would look a bit silly hanging in mid air, so I plan to leave it off. St Vincent Street bridge has been realigned slightly so I could hide the sector plate in the fiddle yard. I will do the post-war brick building on St Vincent Street, above the loco shed, because I can find little information about the church that preceded it (St Simon's). Any locos (for the time being) will be BR diesels as I don't have time to build any 2mm fine scale steam locos before the end of September. To match the diesels, any people or road vehicles will be of the same kind of era. On a brighter note, a few things have been bought over the last few days to help me complete the scenery. Firstly, I bought some Langley OO gauge chimney pots and N gauge etched drain covers. The chimney pot indicated by the red arrow is pretty good for the mess building. It is amazing just how much 4mm stuff I am having to use on my 2mm scale model! I have also bought some 1950s/60s train crew - a Farish production. These figures really do look good. The crew will be hanging around outside the loco shed and mess building and on the platform, to add a bit of life to the scene. I will place the 2 seated men on a bench outside the mess building. Finally, a photo of the Wills Vari-girder kit I mentioned in an earlier post. This is a 4mm kit. The rivets are a bit large for 2mm scale, but otherwise, I think I can get a reasonable representation of the St Vincent Street girders with these. I will have to stick 2 together - one on top of the other - to get the correct height, after trimming a little bit off each. Well, that's my lunch finished, so on with some more modelling (and a little bit of real work in-between ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Onwards we go... and lots of little bits have been completed this afternoon. Firstly, the pillars supporting the front of the water tank have been glued into the baseboard. These are made from darning needles, so fans of darning please look away now...... In reality, the front of the loco shed was a false front. Behind the cosmetic façade of stonework was a deep iron beam. The right hand pillar looks a little out of line on the photo, but has been straightened in real life. The loco shed itself is still removable..... Incidentally, I was going to use slightly thicker darning needles for the pillars. As clearances are at a minimum, I decided to go as narrow as I dared, instead. One reason for the tight clearances is that N gauge stock is slightly wider than in 2mm scale. The other reason is that it WAS tight on the real thing, judging by the photos. The tower roof is now compete, apart from a finial. I have painted it dark grey to seal the paper tiling and secure any loose bits. I forgot to do a photo of it though - sorry! The chimney has now been fixed to the mess building chimney stack Like all the buildings, the chimney stack still requires a bit of cleaning up. This is probably a job for Sunday. Most of the buildings were made with butt joints on the corners, rather than angling the ends at 45 degrees. I find it easier this way - less messy, and dead easy to cut small grooves in the blank bits on the ends to represent the brick or stone courses - just as long as everything lines up OK. Amongst other things, the bases for the 2 water columns have been stuck down and more work has been done on the roadway. All the kerb stones are now in place. Once the solvent has set thoroughly, I will file these down to the correct height and add most of the pavements. I am getting very close now to doing the groundwork. I am really quite excited about this. It is not just a case of pouring on some ballast and weathering. Instead, I will try to make the best job I can of replicating the real thing, which was infinitely more subtle and complicated. More on that another time.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 I felt pretty tired after a hectic day, so I just put all the components onto the diorama, had a long stare at it with a mug of tea in my hand ... and then took these photos for posterity. It won't look this plain for much longer One thing I forgot to mention last time was that the end board to the right of the photos has now been sanded and painted with white primer. The bridge abutment is missing, as it is covered with clamps at the moment, holding different components in place whilst the solvent sets! I just forgot to add the ash bin altogether - I told you I felt pretty tired! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 This is where it all starts to get serious! If I am going to make my diorama presentable by the end of September, I will have to do some proper planning and prioritise things a bit more. This is not like me at all Essentials (excludes scenery at top of cutting) .............. Finish St Vincent Street bridge abutment and fix in place - well under way now! St Vincent Street bridge girders to make, paint and install 2 tiny ground signals to scratchbuild and install - that should be fun! Windows and ventilators for buildings Finial for tower Paint existing buildings and stick in place when necessary Do all groundwork - easier said than done! Paint and weather everything else Water tank detailing, painting and installation Scratchbuild gantry signal for platform - make working model if possible. Luggage Lift - this will have to be non-working as it will be situated right on the edge of the baseboard Finish off platform surface Paint and install water columns Lots of clutter and detailing Above the Cutting Finish roadway and pavements - mainly filling and filing now. Make brick building for St Vincent Street, above the loco shed Paint and weather the scenery A few people and street clutter Backscene - including Cope's Cigar Factory, which I have decided will have to be part of the backscene, rather than in 3D Finishing off Wooden frame at top of diorama Finish off front and sides of the framework Optional - if I have the time More road traffic/people/clutter Detail and weather the Class 24 loco One or two wagons part-filled with loco ash Do another loco? Make turntable operational Make signals operational I have almost certainly forgotten a few things - lets hope not too much though! Saturday was a very busy working day so I got nothing done at all on the modelling front. Fortunately, I can get on with things this afternoon and tomorrow without too many distractions, so lets see how much I can do... The ground signals are of the revolving type, so not as difficult as the miniature semaphores build by the Lime Street team for their 4mm EM gauge layout. I hope to make these revolve in due course. I have ordered some micro-tubing and will make them just as soon as the tubing arrives. Cope's Cigar Factory will have to be part of the backscene, rather than a 3D model. This is because the diorama doesn;t allow enough room to model it well enough in 3D. As a shortcut, I am tempted to photograph a similar building and include it in the backscene using Photoshop. After the Challenge is over, I may think about extending the baseboard at the back, so I can make a proper 3D representation of the building. Just about everything else I need I already have now - with the possible exception of some paints and small detailing items, which I will buy as required. Well, that has just about frightened me enough to keep me motivated for a while I must finish this diorama, I must finish this diorama, I must finish this diorama, I must finish this diorama, I must finish this diorama, ......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Starting to really come together now! keep up the good work and you will make it to the end!! Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I'm quite an organised person so I hope you don't take my following idea the wrong way..... As there is so little time left and still lots to do you ought to set your self a daily goal,such as " I will finish the bridge by Wednesday", " and then finish the water columns by Friday". I know it might sound a bit retentive but by setting jobs to be done to dates on a calendar you will have a rough idea of what you'll be able to get done by the closing date. Concentrate on getting the big stuff done first and leave all the little details like ground signals etc till last that way if you don't get them done it doesn't matter as you will have the bigger picture completed, then you can add all those little details in afterwards. I know how much making a model like this involves and you've done really well to get this far, split the jobs left to do into calendar dates and push on, almost there Rgds, Stuart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaternosterRow Posted August 21, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2011 This is really all coming together now. Can't believe you've even managed to fit a hidden traverse section in! Think the Romanesque style tower is a masterpiece. Great work. Regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Starting to really come together now! keep up the good work and you will make it to the end!! Tom Many thanks for your encouragement! Brings to mind the lyrics (altogether now 1-2-3).. Here we are Standing in the middle of a broken heart I was strong enough to see the hurting part And make it right again Make it to the end I'm quite an organised person so I hope you don't take my following idea the wrong way..... As there is so little time left and still lots to do you ought to set your self a daily goal,such as " I will finish the bridge by Wednesday", " and then finish the water columns by Friday". I know it might sound a bit retentive but by setting jobs to be done to dates on a calendar you will have a rough idea of what you'll be able to get done by the closing date. Concentrate on getting the big stuff done first and leave all the little details like ground signals etc till last that way if you don't get them done it doesn't matter as you will have the bigger picture completed, then you can add all those little details in afterwards. I know how much making a model like this involves and you've done really well to get this far, split the jobs left to do into calendar dates and push on, almost there Rgds, Stuart Hi Stuart! Many thanks for the sound advice. I aim to do this as much as possible - however, much of the detail is pretty integral to the groundwork. One, at least, of the ground signals, for example, is partly buried in the ballast with a wooden frame around it. I do see what you mean though.... This is really all coming together now. Can't believe you've even managed to fit a hidden traverse section in! Think the Romanesque style tower is a masterpiece. Great work. Regards Mike Wow, my work and masterpiece don't often come together. many thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Following Stuart's advice, I set myself an objective for the day on Sunday, but what with waiting for things to dry etc. and rapid exits from the smell of plastic solvent to breathe fresh air, there were many distractions! So, I ended up doing lots of bits and bobs rather than one landmark project. The bridge abutment has progressed enough to be worth a photograph - along with the bridge girders, made from a Wills OO scale Vari-girder kit. Apart from a small amount of filling and filing, my only major task left here is the very top of the stonework - a gently sloping top too. I haven't quite worked out how best to do this yet. The girders need a V shaped sloping top too. In truth, the girder bears only a passing resemblance to the real one, but using the Vari-Girder kit has saved me a great deal of time. When next year's challenge for a diorama 30 feet by 10 feet begins, I can replace the girders by full width ones and build the rest of Lime Street station to go with it I have also cut the brick paving to go inside the loco shed, between the rails. This has not yet been stuck down, as I have some more to cut yet for tan area outside the shed. This work was very hazardous as the 3 darning needles were stuck in here to represent the engine shed columns holding the water tank up a few days ago. So far, I have only stabbed myself once - though thankfully not seriously. Other tasks include painting the turntable and the engine shed columns with self-etch primer, more pavements on the road above the engine shed, installing sockets for the 2 ground signals, painting the sleepers and track bed with grey acrylic paint, putting a ring of stone slabs around the edge of the turntable - and a few other minor jobs here and there. Incidentally, the acrylic paint seems to have taken very well to the Easitrak sleepers, something I was a bit worried about! I'm now planning what to do next - though cutting the remaining paving around the loco shed and sticking it all down has to be a high priority Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Possibly a bit late but does these assist? Taken on 23/6/68, 8F 8033 was about to work 'The Two Cities' railtour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Possibly a bit late but does these assist? Taken on 23/6/68, 8F 8033 was about to work 'The Two Cities' railtour. Hi Great photos and many thanks for putting them up here - unfortunately this is the turntable on the other side of the station, so no use for my model. It may well be useful material for the EM gauge version of the whole station, being built by a team on Merseyside though. One or two of them follow this thread so they should pick them up OK. Best wishes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Yes, I thought something wasn't right! It wa the shots with the diesel that fooled me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Never mind - it was a nice thought! Someday I might find the time to build an LNWR steam loco and then everything will be as it should! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 All has been a bit intermittent on the Lime Street Front for a few of days, but don't worry - there are lots of other things I have to do apart from modelling. I have squeezed in a few modelling bits as and when I could though. I have given the cutting wall and stone walls above a coat of paint to neutralise the variations in colour - all ready to start my Picasso impression in due course. I did some ballasting. For most of this, I am using a paste mixed from several varieties of ballast, PVA, detergent and water. I have been gently filling the gaps between the sleepers - but there is only so much I can do at a time! I wouldn't do a major layout this way, but I reckon that overall it is no slower the usual methods. I have started filling in any gaps and filing some bits down on the buildings in readiness for painting. The chimney stack on the mess building has been painted terracotta. The bridge abutment is almost finished. I used wood filler for the tops of the masonry. I have filed one side to shape and just have one more to do. The girders have been painted grey. I am beginning to feel really pleased about this little sub-project! As for windows, I did an experiment to see how best to do them. There are only 4 in total on all the railway buildings put together - the other holes being for ventilation slats. I doubt if commercial etched ones would be exactly right, so I decided to have a go at making my own. The best way I have tried so far is to stick some tape over clear plastic, removing the tape where the frame elements go, leaving tape just where the window panes are. Then paint with acrylics. I removed the remaining tape - and a window emerged, with nice sharp edges to the panes. I am getting quite excited about the ground signals. I have 2 of these to make - though I think only one was buried likein the photo below - the other will be modelled completely above ground level. These ground signals revolve horizontally by 90 degrees, so should be easy to make operable. After scouring the web, I came across some 0.5mm brass tube. It arrived today. Wire of 0.3mm diameter (which I had in stock already) fits nicely through the middle. That should make pivoting easy - and the whole thing pretty much to scale. Tomorrow will be a very busy day for me too, so it might be Friday before I have some more photos of my work to share with you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I am getting quite excited about the ground signals. I have 2 of these to make - though I think only one was buried likein the photo below - the other will be modelled completely above ground level. These ground signals revolve horizontally by 90 degrees, so should be easy to make operable. After scouring the web, I came across some 0.5mm brass tube. It arrived today. Wire of 0.3mm diameter (which I had in stock already) fits nicely through the middle. That should make pivoting easy - and the whole thing pretty much to scale. I'm intrigued how you will fit the lamp inside so they light up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I'm intrigued how you will fit the lamp inside so they light up Take your pick, some of these are only 1.2x0.8mm http://www.rapidonli...face-Mount-Leds of course there is always ebay, same smt leds but much cheaper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Hello. These are the ones I use for my ground signals.... http://www.led1.de/shop/lng/en/led-smd/smd-led-series-0402/led-smd-series-0402-warm-white-160mcd-welww01-cm.html M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 I'm intrigued how you will fit the lamp inside so they light up I propose to feed my drivers carrots so they can see in the dark - no need for lamps! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Take your pick, some of these are only 1.2x0.8mm http://www.rapidonli...face-Mount-Leds of course there is always ebay, same smt leds but much cheaper Hello. These are the ones I use for my ground signals.... http://www.led1.de/s...welww01-cm.html M. I have some excellent LEDs from DCC Concepts. The problem is not fitting them in but getting the power to them. Ground signals with fixed bodies would be easy, but the LNWR pivoting type would be a real challenge - at least without compromising the appearance. If anyone has a practical idea, I might be disposed to give it a try. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Just to clarify the problem with lighting the ground signals, here is a drawing of the signal - the red bit swivels horizontally and the yellow bit rotates vertically. Everything else is fixed. The rod from the lamp down through the baseboard can only be about 0.3mm diameter to scale. The lamp itself is big enough to fit a miniature LED into, but I can see no easy, reliable way of getting the power to it. Maybe, if anyone does 0.3mm metal tubing I might be able to get the leads for the LED up though the pivot - but I can find nothing smaller than 0.5mm tube for sale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The lamp itself is big enough to fit a miniature LED into, but I can see no easy, reliable way of getting the power to it. Maybe, if anyone does 0.3mm metal tubing I might be able to get the leads for the LED up though the pivot - but I can find nothing smaller than 0.5mm tube for Not sure if this helps but..... When I made a signal recently the led's for the route indicator measured 1.2 x 0.8mm which is about the size of a full stop (using a pen) and I soldered 2 x 0.15mm enamelled copper wires to it, they should be small enough to fit inside a 0.3mm tube (just) if not, use one wire for positive and use the tube as the return.....or......you could always use a fine length of fibre optic cable and just shine the correct colour up it Rgds, Stuart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 if anyone does 0.3mm metal tubing I might be able to get the leads for the LED up though the pivot 31g hypodermic tubing is 0.30mm od if you can find a supplier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Just to clarify the problem with lighting the ground signals, here is a drawing of the signal - the red bit swivels horizontally and the yellow bit rotates vertically. Everything else is fixed. The rod from the lamp down through the baseboard can only be about 0.3mm diameter to scale. The lamp itself is big enough to fit a miniature LED into, but I can see no easy, reliable way of getting the power to it. Maybe, if anyone does 0.3mm metal tubing I might be able to get the leads for the LED up though the pivot - but I can find nothing smaller than 0.5mm tube for sale. How about using fibre optic instead of wire as the pivot and then let the light "flood" in the lamp case? If you could get any of the hypo needles Nat mentioned then you could feed a fibre up them?? Regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Hobby Holidays appear to sell N/S 0.3mm outside diameter (0.12mm ID) so I may well give that a go. I am really not sure what I am letting myself in for here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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