Weekday Cross Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Things are definitely progressing well, but I didn't quite find the time to start laying track. The photo shows where things are as of now, though some of the detail is obscured, as I am holding things down with weights whilst the glue sets! The photo in the background again gives an impression of what the back scene will be like. First of all, last night in fact, I made the sector plate used to get locos from the scenic part of the diorama onto the hidden sidings at the back. This is in the bottom right of the photo - though it is currently the wrong way around. It is a piece of copper-clad PCB with the 2 rails soldered to the top. An insulation gap has been filed down the middle. This went slightly banana shaped after I soldered on the rails, due to the expansion and contraction of the rails as I soldered them on. I was able to straighten it though. The sector plate will pivot in the corner of the baseboard. Today, I stuck the baseboard top to its wooden frame. I cut a quardant in brass to act as a bearing for the sector plate to ride on. Above the brass, I have stuck an arc of PCB that I will solder the rails of the sidings to. I will show a more detailed shot once the glue has set and I have removed the weights. I have also glued some thin card to raise the track in the scenic section up to the correct height. Tomorrow (Tuesday) I really should be able to lay some track! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 WC - Some real progress there - from the micro to the macro!. Like you say, the backscene really sets it off, particularly in black & white.. Might be interesting to see how that focusses the viewpoint when the board scenics are in?? REgs Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 WC - Some real progress there - from the micro to the macro!. Like you say, the backscene really sets it off, particularly in black & white.. Might be interesting to see how that focusses the viewpoint when the board scenics are in?? REgs Ian Thanks - even I am impressed! The scene will be viewable from the LH end as well as the front, so the cutting wall at the back of the loco shed will look just as dramatic as the bit at the back of the diorama. The b/w image in the background shows a hint of what that will be like, if you look at the RHS of the photo. It would be a really interesting challenge to do the whole thing in black & white, but it would need a lot of time and experimentation, so not this time! Meanwhile, I should have some track laid by this evening, so some more good, solid progress to report on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 As promised, I got lots of track laid today - mostly in my lunch break The trackwork is all 2mm fine scale Easitrac, so far, using code 40 bullhead rail. I still have the loco shed area to do, but can't really use Easitrac there, as it is rather complicated (see below). I decided I could add a bit of ply on the near end in the photo, without any risk of going over the 20" limit for the Challenge. This allows a bit more room on the road leading from the turntable, which was needed, in truth. I will probably do something similar along the front of the diorama too, in due course. Around the turntable well, the rails are soldered to PCB sleepers, with a tiny piece of brass in between the rail and the sleeper to represent the base of the chairs. The second photo shows the fiddle yard end of the diorama. The sector plate giving access from the scenic part of the layout to the sidings is shown. This runs on a brass quadrant for smooth operation. I used Easitrac for the sidings as I had plenty spare. Before I wire up the track, I must do the remaining trackwork in the loco shed area. I must study the photos very carefully, to make sure I get the details reasonably accurate. That means little if any more modelling tonight. The loco shed area will take far longer to do. For a start, all 4 tracks converge and intersect around the turntable well, so I will have crossing noses and wing rails to make. Also, there were ash pits on all roads, so conventional sleepering is only really possible under the shed roof - and by then it is hardly worth it, as the track will be more or less buried in the floor. Incidentally, I can't believe it was the 8th of June when I started construction - see HERE Time has really flown by! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted July 12, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2011 Very nice progress... And it looks like you can have some fun shunting this layout too...my entry is a little limited on the operational side in comparison Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Very nice progress...And it looks like you can have some fun shunting this layout too...my entry is a little limited on the operational side in comparison Thanks Pete - I'm desperately trying to keep up with you It is turning out to be an interesting variation on the shunting puzzle - but with locos instead of wagons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Whilst looking at photos I have found or been given for details to model, I remembered this photo, kindly supplied by Dave Pennington. This is the nearest photo of the real thing I have seen to the overall view depicted in the model - though it appears to be after the date when the turntable was electrified and the luggage lift removed. I will only be modelling up as close to the camera as the edge of the station roof, seen in the top left of the photo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 3,958 views and growing! Surely there are better things to spend your time on, viewers, than reading about my humble diorama? In any case, I bet I have a higher readership than the News of the World this Sunday! Anyway, in an effort to get over the 4,000 mark, here's today's progress, of sorts. Firstly, I drew out accurately for the first time where the tracks leading into the loco shed should go. Boy was that a problem! Clearances are incredibly tight, so a slight movement to right or left could easily mean the difference between clearance and collision. Then, I stuck some sleeper strip around the turntable well for the complicated bit where the rails intersect, adjacent to the turntable. I suspect even the real thing was bodged, as photos gave little indication of where the sleepers should go. In any case, they are largely buried under ash and ballast, or even cobbles, so it probably does not matter too much. The main thing was to properly support the crossing noses, where the 4 lines intersect. Then, I thought about the ash pits between the rails. I had imagined these would be a real chore, but inspiration struck quickly, as it often has done with this project I decided to try and cut the slots for the pit sides with my Dremel drill. After experimenting with a few different tools, I came to the conclusion that a 2mm twist drill worked best. I held the drill at about 45 degrees and milled the slots out. It was much easier than I had imagined. I then did the ends of the pits in the same kind of way, so the central cores just fell out. Then, I did the brick lining and floors of the pits. These were made with plasticard sheet. 2 of the pits were easy, as they are straight roads. I simply made the sides, stuck one side to the floor, added the steps and then added the second side. These were then ready, with a little bit of careful filing, to go straight into the pits. I stuck them in place with fast-setting epoxy adhesive. The 2 curved roads are not quite finished yet, as I am still waiting for the solvent to set properly. For these, I made the base slightly over-wide. I then curved one of the walls to match the radius of the pit. I stuck this in place. I then put the steps in. Finally, I bent the second side to match the curve and stuck that in place. Once everything has set, I will trim the base to size and stick these in place. Then, I can add some sleeper strip along the edges, ready to solder rail to. The first photo shows the 4 pits assembled, with the 2 straight ones ready to go in the holes. The second shot shows the 2 pits for the straight roads in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2011 Looking forward to seeing a 2mm Teutonic or a Greater Britain on that turntable B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Looking forward to seeing a 2mm Teutonic or a Greater Britain on that turntable B) A John Hick - like the one in a photo I showed earlier (see repeat below) - is more likely. I am procrastinating at the moment about how or whether I can build one. (photo courtesy Dave Pennington) A John Hick appears in the photo, so it has to be first choice. The Greater Britains are more difficult as the clearances are very tight between the footplate and the flanges of the leading wheels. The Teutonics are by far my favourites of all the Webb compounds - really beautiful locomotives, in my opinion - but it will have to be a JH, I'm afraid. Having said that, I reckon the "layout" can sustain 9 or 10 locos without causing a gridlock, so there is plenty of potential for more types in the future. Photos of passenger trains around Liverpool seem few and far between in the major publications, but a list of what I have seen is as follows: Coal tank 5ft 6in 2-4-2T Cornwall (dedicated to Manchester-Liverpool expresses around the turn of the 19th Century) - that surely is a must if I really do build anything, though how I would source 8ft 6in driving wheels in 2mm scale is a good question! If anyone knows what else was around Lime Street in the 1895-1905 period, I would be interested to know. Incidentally, the John Hicks and Greater Britains were as large a loco as I could get on the layout - they were huge by world, never mind British standards when they first came out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2011 A John Hick will do - and don't forget to make the drivers on the Teutonic spin in different directions Looking very good B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 A John Hick will do - and don't forget to make the drivers on the Teutonic spin in different directions Looking very good B) Many thanks for the compliment! I am involved in a discussion elsewhere about getting the wheels to misbehave. With DCC and 2 motors, it ought to be easy! As for progress, today has been a busy day, work-wise, so I didn't get a great deal done on the diorama. The remaining 2 ash pits were trimmed and stuck in place - here's the proof. Since that photo was taken, I have filled in the gaps at either end of the pits with wood filler. I then stuck some thin card down to bring the height up slightly and stuck 2mm Scale Association point timbers longitudinally alongside the pits. These are to support the running rails. These sleeper strips can be curved in the horizontal plane, incidentally, which was good for lining the 2 curved roads. I used Araldite epoxy adhesive for this - so now everything is under a huge weight whilst the adhesive cures. I may have overdone the weight a little bit.... ... but rather too much than too little! I have now set myself a target of getting the remaining track laid by Sunday evening, if possible. Saturday will be a very long working day, so the more I get done tomorrow (Friday), the better. This gives an idea of what the loco shed tracks will look like around the turntable - 3 crossing noses and 6 wing rails to make. This particular photo is at Manchester London Road, but the principle is the same for my model of Liverpool Lime Street. The loco, incidentally, is the Webb 3-cylinder compound goods tank, with a 2-2-4-0 wheel configuration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted July 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2011 Looking forward to seeing a 2mm Teutonic or a Greater Britain on that turntable B) And I thought this layout was going to have diesels Coming along nicely...those inspection pits look good too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 And I thought this layout was going to have diesels Coming along nicely...those inspection pits look good too. Sad as it may sound, I like both diesel and steam locos - just not very keen on electrics, especially the ones that require all the overhead wiring I would need to get one steam loco built, at the very least, before I could confidently move back in time to 1900 or so. Thanks for your observations - much appreciated! Now, on with the trackwork.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 Just a couple of photos showing progress on the track laying today.... I have used small rectangles of brass shim under the rails along the ash pits to represent the bases of the chairs. These will only be visible from the pit side of the rails when everything is complete, as the ground between the pits was filled up more or less to rail level on the real thing. It should still be worth the effort though. I thought I was going to have problems with the alignment of the rails to the turntable, but so far everything looks just fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 Just a small amount of progress today, so far. The remaining running rails are in place - and line up nicely with the turntable. Just a few wing rails and a couple of check rails to go and the track laying will be complete. There are a few short rails to add around the turntable - provided for locos overrunning the turntable - but I will treat these as scenery rather than running trackwork. The rest will be completed later this evening, as I have other, more pressing matters to attend to over the next few hours. I propose to update here less frequently over the next month or so, as late July and August are devoted to modelling the groundwork - lots of cobbles, ash, ballast, a couple of ground signals and some painting. Progress will hardly be discernible for several days at a time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 Looks amazing! glad I didn't enter now, I could never have made anything to these standards! Richard Hi Richard Many thanks for your comment! Just remember there is a long way to go though - it's one thing to aim for high quality, but another challenge altogether to finish it! My personal view is that competitions like this are a spur to trying something new and to build up valuable modelling experience for your dream layout. Unlike the lottery, it's the participating that's important - not the winning! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Hi Richard Many thanks for your comment! Just remember there is a long way to go though - it's one thing to aim for high quality, but another challenge altogether to finish it! My personal view is that competitions like this are a spur to trying something new and to build up valuable modelling experience for your dream layout. Unlike the lottery, it's the participating that's important - not the winning! I totally agree, it's the taking part that's important, not the winning. And people who are perhaps just starting in the hobby shouldn't feel intimidated because we were all beginners once and the skills that Weekday Cross has have doubtless evolved over years rather than weeks. PS: it's coming along nicely ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 the skills that Weekday Cross has have doubtless evolved over years rather than weeks. PS: it's coming along nicely ! Stuart, you are making me feel old before my time Many thanks for the compliments, though! Newcomers often have a different perspective on things, so it is possible to learn from them as much as the old guys, who sometimes get far too set in their ways Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 I am reminded that this is around the 100th anniversary of the great Liverpool transport strike of 1911, which took place between May and August of that year. No wonder my navvies are not working today When I mentioned starting work on the scenery, I completely forgot the electrics, which really have to go in first. I propose to wire the layout up for DCC, largely as a way of avoiding complicated wiring and lots of section and polarity switches. The turntable will need the current switching as it circulates around, whether under DC or DCC. With DC, I would probably use the rail around turntable well to pass current to the turntable rails. I would need single pole changeover switches for the crossing noses around the turntable. I would also need various section switches for the sidings and running tracks. Under DCC, I think I would need no section switches, or polarity changes, except on the turntable itself. As described in a previous entry, I hope to use a disc under the turntable to activate 2 SPDT micro-switches to switch the polarity of the turntable rails as it swivels round. The crossing noses would not change polarity. The turntable polarity would change several times on each revolution, to set it correctly for each track it lines up to. With DCC, the polarity of the track does not determine the direction the locos travel. This is determined by how you set the decoder. Therefore, the fact that adjacent tracks around the turntable have reverse polarity should not matter, as far as I can see. Wiring it this way should not cause any short circuits, just as long as I can get the turntable rails to match the polarity of the rails they line up to. When I first mentioned it, no one came back to say it would not work. The diagram is attached below, showing how the polarity would be set to avoid conflicts. The diagram shows the uppermost RH track wrongly, as this too should intersect the adjacent track. The disc under the turntable will be situated under the baseboard. It will be made as big as possible. The movement required to positively switch the micro-switches I have bought is about 4mm. I propose to cut a wavy edge to the disc, so that as it revolves with the turntable, the 2 micro-switches (one for each turntable rail) switch reliably as the turntable moves from one track to the next. I am going to try and cut the disc out of a sheet of perspex. A possible alternative is a sheet of PCB. I would feed one of the turntable rails from the micro-switch via the rail around the turntable well. The other would be via the turntable pivot rod. A DCC current reverser was suggested as an alternative, but I have no idea how to use one in such a role. If anyone has a better idea, please tell me, as it will soon be too late! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwinewt Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 A DCC current reverser was suggested as an alternative, but I have no idea how to use one in such a role. If anyone has a better idea, please tell me, as it will soon be too late! Wire up the turntable and all the shed spurs to the DCC bus via the reverser. Wire the other lines directly to the bus. Would recommend a second reverser for your other corner... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Wire up the turntable and all the shed spurs to the DCC bus via the reverser. Wire the other lines directly to the bus. Would recommend a second reverser for your other corner... Hi - and thanks for the reply. The bit I really don't understand is how or where the the reverser would switch the current. I understand perfectly how it would operate on a reverse loop, but not with a turntable - especially given that the turntable could be rotated 360 degrees. Apologies if I am being thick! The bottom RH corner of the layout doesn't need any current reversal, by the way. I have arranged the trackwork so that there is no crossing to cause problems. I have now added a query about all this in the DCC section, so hopefully a few DCC experts will step in to help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 After a particularly hectic weekend's work, I have been finding it rather taxing to do much to Liverpool Lime Street. I really need to resolve how I am going to apply DCC to the turntable and the tracks radiating from it towards the loco shed before I do too much more. In the meantime, I realise I have not shown any photos of the completed track, so here we go... ... and the underside of the baseboard, showing the cut-out in the frame to allow a large disk under the turntable to operate the micro-switches that will alter the polarity of the running rails on the turntable (if I go ahead with that method, anyway!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwinewt Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 It basically monitors for a short, picks this up and flips the AC around to match it... or at least thats the theory i work on. It's the same principle as flipping the current on a loop that doubles back on itself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Many thanks for that - I had always assumed that a DCC current reverser would need to reverse the current before a short happened - now it is all much clearer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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