What is that sticky black stuff underneath the electric motor?

[brian777999]

I have two new Hornby Dean Singles (Royal Sovereign and Great Western) which are both running terribly. In desparation I have pulled apart Royal Sovereign, cleaned all the grease off the gears and put the whole thing back together again making sure that the gear on the driving axle meshes properley with the motor gear.

 

It is too early to say if I have solved the problem (I am running it now) but I did notice a blob of sticky black stuff under the motor where it sits on the chassis. It stains the fingers and has the texture of chewing gum on a hot pavement. What is this stuff and what is its purpose ?

 

NOTE : Problem is still not solved. Loco runs erratically, jerking about in stops and starts. One loco giving problems I can understand but two is perplexing !

[Butler Henderson]

I have two new Hornby Dean Singles (Royal Sovereign and Great Western) which are both running terribly. In desparation I have pulled apart Royal Sovereign, cleaned all the grease off the gears and put the whole thing back together again making sure that the gear on the driving axle meshes properley with the motor gear.

 

It is too early to say if I have solved the problem (I am running it now) but I did notice a blob of sticky black stuff under the motor where it sits on the chassis. It stains the fingers and has the texture of chewing gum on a hot pavement. What is this stuff and what is its purpose ?

 

Its to hold the motor in place without it rotating with potential shorting issues of a brush holder hitting the live chassis block. As for the running problems I would suggest that you really ought to have returned them, in the absence of that take a pair of wires from the track supply directly to the brush contacts and see how well the motor runs - then if thats okay back track along the circuitry with the wires to find where the problem is - pick ups at a guess.

[hollywoodfoundry]

I am puzzled as to why you think cleaning the grease off the gears is going to help? Manufacturers put it there for good reason. Most likely problem is dirty wheels.

[brian777999]

Its to hold the motor in place without it rotating with potential shorting issues of a brush holder hitting the live chassis block. As for the running problems I would suggest that you really ought to have returned them, in the absence of that take a pair of wires from the track supply directly to the brush contacts and see how well the motor runs - then if thats okay back track along the circuitry with the wires to find where the problem is - pick ups at a guess.

I live in Australia and I purchased the locos from the UK so it makes returning them a problem. It would cost me about 40 pounds to return them to the UK. Australian postal charges are about double that of Royal Mail.

 

The locos seems to run okay when cold but after 20 or 30 mins then the problems start to appear. The pickups look fine ; they were the first thing I looked at. They have numerous pickups so it is unlikely that they are all giving problems at the same time.

[brian777999]

I am puzzled as to why you think cleaning the grease off the gears is going to help? Manufacturers put it there for good reason. Most likely problem is dirty wheels.

 

When the problem initially began, it was suggested that I should lubricate the gears. I did this and the problem got worse so I cleaned all the grease off the gears because some people said that can cause problems too.

 

The wheels are clean. Problems appear after about 20-30 minutes of running time. It is much worse in forward than reverse which is why I suspected the gears.

[hollywoodfoundry]

Well, I can assure you that cleaning the grease off the gears is not going to fix the problem, a small amount of grease on gears is essential. The only problem relating to grease is on old models where the manufacturer used an old form of grease that solidified when it aged. Modern grease, the white Teflon bearing grease is good for lubricating gears. You can obtain it from cycle shops.

 

As suggested by Butler Henderson, try attaching wires directly to the motor and run for some time to see if the problem is in the drive system or the power collection system.

 

I am also puzzled by your comment that it would cost 40 Pounds to return them to the UK. Assuming a package weighing about 1.5 Kg, which should account for two locomotives, it will cost you $53.70 to send them to the UK, which is about £34.00, but it would cost you £44.00 to send the same parcel from the UK to Australia, assuming they both go by air. Sending the same parcel from Australia to the UK by surface mail would cost you $29.15, which is £18.90 and from the UK to Australia by the same method would cost £37.00

 

So there is no way you could conclude that Australia Post is double the cost of Parcelforce, the Royal Mail parcel service. Australia Post is actually the third cheapest mail service in the world.

[Butler Henderson]

If they run okay for 20-30 mins then start acting up I would suggest its a motor problem, do the motors get warm ?

[brian777999]

If they run okay for 20-30 mins then start acting up I would suggest its a motor problem, do the motors get warm ?

 

Not really, but I will have another look at it. I think it might be best to send them back to Hornby and let them have a look at it. I have tried to isolate the problem and got nowehere. The only good thing is now I know how to take apart and reassemble a Dean Single !

[brian777999]

Its to hold the motor in place without it rotating with potential shorting issues of a brush holder hitting the live chassis block. As for the running problems I would suggest that you really ought to have returned them, in the absence of that take a pair of wires from the track supply directly to the brush contacts and see how well the motor runs - then if thats okay back track along the circuitry with the wires to find where the problem is - pick ups at a guess.

 

I have put the chassis up on wooden blocks and run two wires from the controller to the wheels and everything seems to run smoothly. But when I put it on the track it runs like rubbish. Yet it is not the track because the Bachmann loco runs perfectly. I am very puzzled now !

[hollywoodfoundry]

That suggests that there is a problem with power delivery to the motor from the wheels. The wheels may be clean, but the pickups might be making poor contact or there may even be a loose or badly soldered wire in the circuit.

 

I don't know where you are located, but you might try looking for someone local to you who is good at fixing these problems. They should not be too hard to sort. Are you a member of a club?

[brian777999]

That suggests that there is a problem with power delivery to the motor from the wheels. The wheels may be clean, but the pickups might be making poor contact or there may even be a loose or badly soldered wire in the circuit.

 

I don't know where you are located, but you might try looking for someone local to you who is good at fixing these problems. They should not be too hard to sort. Are you a member of a club?

 

I live in Cairns, Australia. There is nobody here who repairs model locomotives. The hobby shops here specialise in radio control but model trains are not something they deal with very much and they know very little about the subject. That is why I buy everything from the UK. I will keep trying to find the cause of the problem for a few more days.

 

It does sound like a pickup problem but there are multiple sets of pickups on this locomotive and they cannot all be causing problems at the same time.

[kevinlms]

I live in Cairns, Australia. There is nobody here who repairs model locomotives. The hobby shops here specialise in radio control but model trains are not something they deal with very much and they know very little about the subject. That is why I buy everything from the UK. I will keep trying to find the cause of the problem for a few more days.

 

 

 

I thought Cairns was a big place these days >150,000, surely someone else models trains? How about asking AMRA or the BRMA if they have any members there that may be able to assist?

 

It does sound like a pickup problem but there are multiple sets of pickups on this locomotive and they cannot all be causing problems at the same time.

 

 

It would if it was the main wire running from a collection point to the motor. Never assume anything.

 

Something worth having is a set of jump leads for temporarily bridging out suspect wiring, like these.

 

http://jaycar.com.au...or&form=KEYWORD (WC6010 within Jaycar's website if the link doesn't work).

 

Kevin Martin

[hollywoodfoundry]

I live in Cairns, Australia. There is nobody here who repairs model locomotives. The hobby shops here specialise in radio control but model trains are not something they deal with very much and they know very little about the subject. That is why I buy everything from the UK. I will keep trying to find the cause of the problem for a few more days.

 

It does sound like a pickup problem but there are multiple sets of pickups on this locomotive and they cannot all be causing problems at the same time.

 

OK, see how you go. If you don't have any success you could mail then down to me in Victoria and I could have a look at them. A lot cheaper than sending them back to the UK.

[brian777999]

I thought Cairns was a big place these days >150,000, surely someone else models trains? How about asking AMRA or the BRMA if they have any members there that may be able to assist?

 

It would if it was the main wire running from a collection point to the motor. Never assume anything.

 

Something worth having is a set of jump leads for temporarily bridging out suspect wiring, like these.

 

http://jaycar.com.au...or&form=KEYWORD (WC6010 within Jaycar's website if the link doesn't work).

 

Kevin Martin

 

I have a set of those jumper leads but even those alligator clips are too big. That is what I have on my controller now but something finer is needed. I will keep experimenting and try to find the fault.

 

Further information : there are some periods when the loco runs quite smoothly and you would think that the problem was solved. Then it starts happening again ; sometimes the loco seems to sieze up altogether and you have to nudge it into action.

[Sam Moss]

Are you sure the wheels are super clean? When I recieve a new loco the first thing I do straight out the box is clean the wheels. This seems to remove some of the blackening and improves performance no end. Also give the backs of the wheels (where the pickups rub) a good clean. We use fibreglass propelling pencils at our club and we swear by them. (I know some people don't like them).

 

I take it the current single wheel chassis is now DCC READY? Check the wires on the circuit board. They're very thin and notorious for coming off very easily. We've repaired alot of the new motor bogied DMU's and loco's with the thin wire.

[Dr Al]

If they run okay for 20-30 mins then start acting up I would suggest its a motor problem, do the motors get warm ?

 

I would second this. It may well be a motor bearing issue or lack of lubrication in this area.

 

I would also concur that the gearing must be lubricated - if not it'll be stiffer and have more friction which in turn will make your motor work harder. This can be quite an amount - I've noted lubricating 'dry' locos can cut the motor current consumption by up to 20%, which in turn means up to 45% less heat generated in the motor. The hotter motors run the lower their lifespan.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Coppercap]

Are you sure the wheels are super clean? When I recieve a new loco the first thing I do straight out the box is clean the wheels. This seems to remove some of the blackening and improves performance no end. Also give the backs of the wheels (where the pickups rub) a good clean. We use fibreglass propelling pencils at our club and we swear by them. (I know some people don't like them).

 

These Dean singles have plated wheels, not blackened. Pick ups on all eight wheels too.

[brian777999]

Are you sure the wheels are super clean? When I recieve a new loco the first thing I do straight out the box is clean the wheels. This seems to remove some of the blackening and improves performance no end. Also give the backs of the wheels (where the pickups rub) a good clean. We use fibreglass propelling pencils at our club and we swear by them. (I know some people don't like them).

 

I take it the current single wheel chassis is now DCC READY? Check the wires on the circuit board. They're very thin and notorious for coming off very easily. We've repaired alot of the new motor bogied DMU's and loco's with the thin wire.

 

The wheels were definitely clean as were the back of the wheels where the pickups make contact. I cleaned them anyway just to make sure. All the wires seemed to be intact.

I have posted them back to Hornby in the UK this afternnon. It cost $55. I will post their report on here when they get a chance to have a look at them. I am very curious as to what the problem is and how they fix it.

[Coppercap]

Brian, all of my five Dean singles are running really smoothly. That's some with traction tyres, some without. Unfortunately I can't suggest any other cause of the problems you're having, other than those already mentioned. Hope Hornby sort them out for you, but it does sound puzzling. Maybe your climate's not suitable for them!

[brian777999]

Brian, all of my five Dean singles are running really smoothly. That's some with traction tyres, some without. Unfortunately I can't suggest any other cause of the problems you're having, other than those already mentioned. Hope Hornby sort them out for you, but it does sound puzzling. Maybe your climate's not suitable for them!

 

I know ; I am totally stumped by this ! One loco causing problems I can understand but both at the same time is very odd. As you say, nobody else is having problems with their Dean singles. The weather is actually very cold here at the moment so I would have thought the locos would feel quite at home. Hopefully, we will soon know the cause of these problems.

The Bachmann City of Truro runs beautifully so I at least have that to look at but the Dean Singles are essential if I am going to model the pregrouping era. There is not much else available for the period 1900-1910. The Hornby locos were worth buying for the coaches alone though.