Any Question Answered

[richbrummitt]

5 hours ago, garethashenden said:

What are my best options in 2023 for assembling a trains worth of private owner coal wagons? Ideally suitable for a 1927-1930 timeframe. I know there are some body and chassis kits in Shop 2, and there are some 3D printable body files. I don‘t really know what any of the N gauge manufacturers are offering. What about transfers? The few that exist seem to get mixed reviews. 

The Mathieson wagons, are in my opinion, the best RTR of the type but expensive now and only one type of body moulding ever available for side and end door. The new PECO look like they might have body mouldings for with and without but I’ve not looked at any close up. 
If you have the ability to use @Sithlord75 files for printing in a resin printer I think they are best. Lots of choice of body styles and properly thin sides if you want that (and why wouldn’t you). 

[Simon D.]

With the demise of Eileen's, does anyone know of an alternative source of thin (1/32" approx or equivalent) phosphor bronze strip?  I can only find this in sheets.  Nothing it seems from Squires, Hobby Holidays or Ebay.

[PeteT]

You could try Hobby Holidays,  they have quite an extensive range. 

Pete ?

[yaxxbarl]

1 hour ago, Simon D. said:

With the demise of Eileen's, does anyone know of an alternative source of thin (1/32" approx or equivalent) phosphor bronze strip?  I can only find this in sheets.  Nothing it seems from Squires, Hobby Holidays or Ebay.

Metalsmith (Leeds) have some 0.25mm x 1.25mm strip that may do the job.

 

http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/metals-materials.htm

[Simon D.]

Mea culpa.  I meant strip about .005" -  13mm or thereabouts, and not sheet which is easily available on Ebay.  Not sure either HH or MetalSmith do these.

[Nig H]

45 minutes ago, Simon D. said:

Mea culpa.  I meant strip about .005" -  13mm or thereabouts, and not sheet which is easily available on Ebay.  Not sure either HH or MetalSmith do these.

The Association shop 4 does thin strip 0.005" at various thicknesses from 0.25mm to 1.5mm (see 4 -724). I can't remember how long the strip is but i'm sure its more than 13mm. is that of any use?

 

Nigel Hunt

[figworthy]

7 hours ago, Simon D. said:

With the demise of Eileen's, does anyone know of an alternative source of thin (1/32" approx or equivalent) phosphor bronze strip?  I can only find this in sheets.  Nothing it seems from Squires, Hobby Holidays or Ebay.

 

If you've not seen it, this might help :

 

 

 

Adrian

[2mm Andy]

Wizard Models sell pack of 5 thou thick phosphor bronze strip.  Not sure from your description if you need 13mm wide or 13mm long though?

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/1220/

 

Andy

[Jan W]

5 thou is approx 0,13mm

[ianb3174]

Apologies if this has been asked before but I’ve got an idea for a layout in 2mm fs. To make it work I’d need a return curve at each end of 450-500mm radius. Is this feasible? Would be diesels only, and likely not huge ones. The curves would be hidden and ease in radius as they come back into the scenic area. 
what is the expert view on tight curves?  
id intend to make it from copperclad on a Templot plan so could add widening as necessary.

[Izzy]

Most RTR  N gauge diesels can cope with radius down to around 300mm without issue, often quite a bit tighter, so 450-500mm would be fine in my experience. Gauge widening isn't needed, just with steam locos. What it looks like is of course another matter. Perhaps the most important aspect is the couplings you use. I have found that DG's are best in this respect.

 

Bob

[Izzy]

Perhaps I should just add that if you use the 3-point gauge, which is always and only with the two legs on the outside of a curve ( otherwise you’ll get gauge narrowing), then gauge widening proportional to the radius will result if you use soldered track. It won’t hurt doing it.

 

Bob

[ianb3174]

Supplementary question A: Say the radius was 480mm at its tightest, what kind of steam loco would get round without too many issues?  I'm guessing an 0-6-0 tender loco would manage, but is an 2-6-4t expecting too much? How much relative sideplay do you lose in converting to FS? 

[bécasse]

The big issue for "tight" radii is the extent of the overhangs beyond the outermost fixed wheels (or bogie centres for bogie rolling stock) and the effect of those overhangs on buffing and coupling arrangements. It is an issue in any gauge/scale, of course, but the finer the standards the greater the potential problems.

 

The other issue is clearance (frames, cylinders/valve gear, steps) for bogies and pony trucks which can be bodged to some extent but only so far.

Edited April 25, 2023 by bécasse

[Izzy]

Well, I've got my converted Jinty, 4F, and Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0 around radius down to 300mm/12" but that's because they were N gauge and designed to get around small radius in the first place so have narrower than standard frames/chassis than is normally used in 2mm/2FS. I've also managed to get my N7 0-6-2T to do the same by dint of allowing the maximum sideplay on all the coupled axles as well as the pony truck. The real locos had narrowed rear frames for the radial/pony truck for the self same reasons in real life. So as per @bécasse post it's down to dealing with each particular  loco on an individual basis. I'm about to start building a LNER/BR Thompson L1 2-6-4T which will have to get around at least 450mm so I assume that it will be a case of allowing the rear bogie to have controlled side movement at it's pivot point. It really is a case of experimenting to see what's possible.

 

Obviously if you intend to use tighter than normal radius as I said before using the maximum gauge widening you can will be a big help. You can actually do bespoke widening which is considerably more than the 3-point gauge will give. I'll have to double-check what I did but I think you can set the gauge to 9.7mm before the wheels drop between. With locos with larger diameter wheels such as steamers it's not so much the sideplay that's the ultimate issue but the angle at which the leading edge of the flange strikes the rail head which becomes the limiting factor (causes the wheel to want to ride up the side of the rail and thus derail).

 

Bob

 

 

 

[Donw]

For the couplings the greatest offset is when one vehicle is fully on the curve and the one attached to it is still on the straight. So if you can manage it a short length of shallower curve as a transistion can make a big difference. 

 

Don

[nick_bastable]

A question of when do you stop

 

I have built a couple of Worsley works  Continetntal boat train coaches I confess the door vents are a bit wonky,  I chose to finish them in Blood and Custard using Roots Rail paints via ebay ( the colour  looks  right to me  and no commercial links ) at 3 foot they look fine at 2 foot not too shabby  however on a close up picture my  finish is  rhymes   with clap.   Attemps to produce a clean line betwix the two colours is at best haphazard.  Masking only appears to be good in part and lifts paint in other areas.   As to the rooves  Mk 5 print has been drawn and awaits 3d printing.

 

Or should I just paint them BR/SR green or BR crimison ?

 

As I say at normal distance they look very nice should I settle for 3rd best  knowing if I ever get round to finishing the layout I be a good two/three feet away?

All this is not very in the spirit of 2mm perhaps time to throw in the towel and  retire hurt

Edited May 11, 2023 by nick_bastable
added info

[ShadowinLinby]

Hi Nick - I see two options

 

1 Keep stripping and repainting until you can produce paint work as good as the best at the sacrifice of everything else. 

 

2 Accept your limitations at the moment knowing you will get better as you do more. They are a good first attempt.

 

It is commonly accepted that mastery takes around 10000 hours of practice. Time is our most limited resource so I would say accept what you have and move on knowing next time you will be slightly better.

 

ChrisB

[Donw]

6 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

A question of when do you stop

 

I have built a couple of Worsley works  Continetntal boat train coaches I confess the door vents are a bit wonky,  I chose to finish them in Blood and Custard using Roots Rail paints via ebay ( the colour  looks  right to me  and no commercial links ) at 3 foot they look fine at 2 foot not too shabby  however on a close up picture my  finish is  rhymes   with clap.   Attemps to produce a clean line betwix the two colours is at best haphazard.  Masking only appears to be good in part and lifts paint in other areas.   As to the rooves  Mk 5 print has been drawn and awaits 3d printing.

 

Or should I just paint them BR/SR green or BR crimison ?

 

As I say at normal distance they look very nice should I settle for 3rd best  knowing if I ever get round to finishing the layout I be a good two/three feet away?

All this is not very in the spirit of 2mm perhaps time to throw in the towel and  retire hurt

 

They may not win you a cup at the AGM but they look fine to me in the photos. It rather depends on what you want in a layout. If you enjoy running trains these would be perfectly acceptable to me. Attention usually goes to the loco.  I believe the use of super close ups is pushing standards beyond what ordinary mortal can achieve. 

You may feel going up a scale or two will solve the problem not so the bigger the scale the easier it is to spot imperfections. My solution is to wear extra strong reading glasses for modelling when I put my normal ones on (or just take them off) the models look better immediately.

 

Don

[Ian Smith]

7 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

A question of when do you stop

 

I have built a couple of Worsley works  Continetntal boat train coaches I confess the door vents are a bit wonky,  I chose to finish them in Blood and Custard using Roots Rail paints via ebay ( the colour  looks  right to me  and no commercial links ) at 3 foot they look fine at 2 foot not too shabby  however on a close up picture my  finish is  rhymes   with clap.   Attemps to produce a clean line betwix the two colours is at best haphazard.  Masking only appears to be good in part and lifts paint in other areas.   As to the rooves  Mk 5 print has been drawn and awaits 3d printing.

 

Or should I just paint them BR/SR green or BR crimison ?

 

As I say at normal distance they look very nice should I settle for 3rd best  knowing if I ever get round to finishing the layout I be a good two/three feet away?

All this is not very in the spirit of 2mm perhaps time to throw in the towel and  retire hurt

Nick,

I wouldn't worry too much about the door vents being a bit wonky - you should see some of mine!!!

 

When I paint coaches, I do it iteratively - there is ALWAYS some touching up to be done with a fine brush, then some retouching, and then a bit more retouching!!  What you have there is probably where I start from.  Good light and magnification is your friend - I use one of those combined light magnifiers  (although the magnification takes a bit of getting used to when you see that the size 000 brush that you thought you'd picked up is actually a size 6 🤣)

 

I should also add that it wouldn't be the first time that I've completely stripped a coach back to bare metal and started all over again!!

 

Ian

[Chris Higgs]

13 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

Or should I just paint them BR/SR green or BR crimison ?

 

 

Having the first option is one of the great benefits of modelling the SR. If I ever get them finished, I intend to paint all my Bulleids green and just stick to Bachmann offerings a a bit of crimson and cream for variety.

 

Chris

 

[bécasse]

5 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

Having the first option is one of the great benefits of modelling the SR. If I ever get them finished, I intend to paint all my Bulleids green and just stick to Bachmann offerings a a bit of crimson and cream for variety.

 

It isn't quite as simple as that though. The general Southern principle for carriage stock was revarnish after three years, repaint after six, although secondary stock (typically only used at summer peaks) would normally go a bit longer than that depending where it was stabled, and post-war paint shortages also tended to prolong painting cycles. Paint would be touched up, and liveries updated, as part of the revarnishing process.

 

Crimson and cream as a carriage livery effectively lasted a bit over six years so all Southern stock should have worn it by 1956 but didn't for the reasons given above, plus the ready availability of the correct green paint for touching up because electric stock continued to be painted green.

 

In the immediate post-war years, paint shortages meant, more or less, that only front-line and new (Bulleid) stock got full repaints in green and most of those carriages remained in green right through until the use of crimson and cream was abandoned in 1956. Newer Bulleid carriages were turned out in crimson and cream but fairly quickly became green from 1956 simply because most became due for a repaint anyway. Most Maunsell stock hadn't had a post-war repaint when crimson and cream came in and so most (but not all) Maunsell stock did gain that livery in the early 1950s and subsequently became green again in the late 1950s. All BR standard stock new before mid-1956, mainly 3-sets, was delivered in crimson and cream and only slowly became green later.

 

Non-corridor stock had been well down the priority list for post-war repaints and so the vast majority became plain crimson in the early-1950s (with a few, but only a few, lined before that practice was abandoned) and relatively few ever became green again (except on the IoW where the whole surviving fleet reverted to green).

Edited May 11, 2023 by bécasse

[Nig H]

On 11/05/2023 at 02:14, nick_bastable said:

A question of when do you stop

 

I have built a couple of Worsley works  Continetntal boat train coaches I confess the door vents are a bit wonky,  I chose to finish them in Blood and Custard using Roots Rail paints via ebay ( the colour  looks  right to me  and no commercial links ) at 3 foot they look fine at 2 foot not too shabby  however on a close up picture my  finish is  rhymes   with clap.   Attemps to produce a clean line betwix the two colours is at best haphazard.  Masking only appears to be good in part and lifts paint in other areas.   As to the rooves  Mk 5 print has been drawn and awaits 3d printing.

 

Or should I just paint them BR/SR green or BR crimison ?

 

 

 

I assume they should be lined between the crimson and cream so that might hide the ragged edges.

 

Nigel Hunt 

[Argos]

A slight cock-up in planning has meant I have a sharper then planned curve on my Irish Broad gauge (10.5mm gauge) layout currently under construction.

 

I was always planning to use gauge widening as the minimum "standard" curve I had design to was 20" so well below the recommended 28" minimum in the society's track standards:

 

For the 20" curve I was intending to use the 0.1mm 0.004" widening recommended in the table above.

My sharper curve is down to 16", should I be widening beyond this or stick to 0.1mm widening?

 

Or is it a case of some trial and error required?

Edited May 20, 2023 by Argos

[MrSimon]

Hi all,

 

What are the best options for lining a teak coach in 2mm?  It’s a steel-side Gresley BG so I’ll need to add it rather than just following the panel lines… is there a handy transfer set available or is this going to become the summer of the bow pen?

 

The oils still need to fully set and be sealed with varnish, and the rest of the coach needs to be finished, but here’s where I’m up to.

 

Many thanks

Simon