George Hudson Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I have been encountering problems with my virtually brand new Bachmann B1 [edit]. It ran fine from the off but over time has been increasingly more hesitant at slow speeds going forwards. Backwards is much better but that has its moments too. I have tested it on various different tracks including brand new sections so believe it's the engine. I have never run it hard or for long periods at a stretch; neither have I oiled any moving parts. Any thoughts? Regards Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I'm afraid Bachmann haven't made a B17 - is it a Hornby B17 or a Dapol B17? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hudson Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Oops Hornby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Oops Hornby It can't be "nearly new" then - the last tender drive B17 was made the best part of a decade ago I would suggest, if it is the tender drive example (and I am pretty sure it has to be, given Hornby have never made a loco-drive B17, at least until the new incarnation of said model is out), cleaning the wheels on both loco and tender to ensure decent pickups, plus cleaning the track they run on too, to be the simplest way to find out if it's a mechanical, or merely a cleaning problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2011 I have a pair of leads with croc clips either end. Invert the loco in a cradle or similar soft bed, apply croc clips to a pair of non-driven wheels and the track, open throttle. If the mechanism responds in a linear fashion in both directions, then it's probably pickups. If the loco is still sticky and jerky, then the mech may be suspect. While you have the loco inverted and at your mercy, cleaning wheels and pickups (your choice of method for this, isopropyl alcohol etc is the recommended wet method) is very easy to accomplish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hudson Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Thanks for the comments, just to drive Andy Y mad, it is a Bachmann: the B1, (Springbok), not a B17. Sorry for confusion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CullingworthGNR Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hello George, I'm just about to write up a maintenance guide to the Bachmann B1 for my new website, so I should have some pictures available shortly. 2 things to check first off - 1) Undo the base plate and clear out any grease from the axle bearings using a cotton bud. Leave only a tiny bit of lubricant. 2) When re-fitting the base plate, make sure the screws are not done up too tightly - just enough to hold them in. These screws can cause binding in the chassis if done up too much. Thanks, let us know how you get on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theakerr Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 If you do a search of this site you should find several threads about the Bachmann B1 and the Bachmann J39, that suffers from many of the same problems). If I remember correctly problems/cures are: 1) Grease as referenced above 2) Base plates as mentioned above 3) Contacting valve gear components 4) Raised plastic center wheel inserts that bind on con rods 5) Incorrect wheel back to back measurements 6) Incorectly aligned internal gears - by the way this was the cause of two of my locos running not too bad backwards and pathetically fwds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim49 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 All I would add to Tom's reply would be to clean out ALL the grease from the axle bearing slots in the chassis and also from the shiny metal surfaces of the driving axles. I have 2 B1s and I have to do this to both of them any time they are run. Don't worry about regreasing them, there seems to be an almost endless suppy hidden up between the chassis halves which finds its way down when the locos are out of use. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CullingworthGNR Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Yep, I'd agree with that actually. I fully cleaned mine by taking it to pieces - something I wouldn't recommend unless you need to! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hudson Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 That's very much appreciated, I probably won't get time to do this until the end of the week or weekend but those tips geve me a really good basis to start. Thanks again! Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CullingworthGNR Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 How did you get on mate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hudson Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Thanks for the prod, it all got lost with the other "to dos". Have just got back from hols and will try to find the time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hudson Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 I followed your advice but unfortunately no real improvement: runnning a little better backwards but just the same forwards. The axels had some grease and dirt but not a great deal. I will have to have think about this. I suspect that I might have two problems at once the second being poor power supply from my simple Fleischmann controller. My second loco, a Britannia (with a chip) seems to have given up also even though I have changed the chip thinking that an earlier short had burnt it out. Frankly feeling a little disappointed at moment to I will return to this later. Ho hum Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Are you running DCC or DC, Have you a test lamp to check out your track, 12v bulb with couple of bites of stiff wire soldered to it to put across track, or testmeter, possibly joints not conducting satisfactorily, seems likely since you are having probs with 2 locos, this would also prove whether your controller is suspect, A 12v 2.2 or 6 watt bulb is the better option as this will load the supply rather than a meter. Beeman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hudson Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 I pulled the loco apart again and gave it a basic clean up. I suspect that dirty wheels and contacts were the real source of the suspected controller problem. I can't say the running is perfect but it's much improved. I will repeat this when I get some proper cleaing fluids and hope that is the final solution. I am using DC but the whole layout is wired in anticipation of DCC ie there is a bus with numerous droppers to feed the track. Thanks again Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hudson Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Continuing the sorry saga, the loco was still running poorly so had another look. Putting it it back together, it looks like one set of wheels are not properly quartered which would account, I think, for better running in one direction than the other. I am at a loss as to how this can happen. Can they drift over time because they are under stress from some other part of the asembly which itself is not correctly aligned? How do I solve this? Can the simply be forced round on the axel manually? Any ideas or suggestions would be welcome. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hudson Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Continuing the sorry saga, the loco was still running poorly so had another look. Putting it it back together, it looks like one set of wheels are not properly quartered which would account, I think, for better running in one direction than the other. I am at a loss as to how this can happen. Can they drift over time because they are under stress from some other part of the asembly which itself is not correctly aligned? How do I solve this? Can the simply be forced round on the axel manually? Any ideas or suggestions would be welcome. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Hi Andrew Bachmann split chassis locos use nylon spacers that are a push fit onto the wheels. With time the nylon fatigues and splits and spacer looses its grip on the wheel. I also suspect that not all nylon spacers are moulded completely identical. All in all lots of reasons why wheels will not be quartered perfectly. Replacement nylon axle joiners are available to buy direct from Bachmann spares using Paypal. I too have lots of problems with B1s and the official line from Bachmann is to clean out ALL the grease. It does improve matters. I will also repeat what previous people have said, do not over tighten the bottom keeper plate - particularly the front screw between the cylinders. There is a video of 'one I made earlier' here: http://youtu.be/TiSkRBVgAoQ Hope this helps. Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hudson Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Hi Ray, Thanks for that, loved the video! Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 The wheelsets do go off-quarter, and it is usually an indication that one or more of the nylon axle insulators is about to 'let go'. I glue up the wheelsets with 24hr Araldite (after careful degreasing) and that keeps the show on the road until other components are terminally worn out. As earlier replies indicate, this chassis design is 'tweaky' : minimum grease lubrication with periodic wipe clean of the bearing surfaces and regreasing, optimising the set up of the chassis halves, not overtightening the keeper plate screws, dealing with the wheelface inserts if they bow outwards, and then wearing all the plating off down to the mazak, at which point the dustbin beckons. ( I have yet to have a motor fail, these seem to go on forever.) Basically it is a short life chassis, principally due to plating wear out; of all the range with this style of slplit chassis that I have sampled, the B1 is one of the best for running performance and longevity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hudson Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 I pulled the wheels on the offending axel apart and refitted correctly quartered and it is running very smoothly again. Medium to long term I will order the replacement part and fit when it goes again. In general, although I am no engineer I think the design ot the chassis is pretty elegant in its simplicity. Many thanks again to all for taking the time to post the tips: I guess that's the sort of thing this site is all about! Regards Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Think I am correct in saying this was the original Replica !!!! Had one some 20 odd years back and awful runner due mainly to gear setup/ traction tyres.Recently bought a Bachman BR Earl Rdley off Fleaybay supposed to be mint but dud motor. replaced motor , took me days to get it to run well especially as I need it to go round R! curves.It had had some bodge job repairs done on it.This was not a good mechanical model as the motor should have been mounted midships to even the weight on the outer drivers, most of the weight is on the front end, be interesting to see what the big 2 do with each of their new versions. I even milled out some of the chassis to allow the axle drive gear to move further laterally, thinned the chassis spacers to narrow, got rid of the center axle springs, and so on.What a job. tender pickups and tender chipped. Motor was off Ebay. Mabuchi 10 for £5.00, good motor similar length but end caps smaller, also motor shaft reduction sleeve needed. Very troublesome but succeeded, and repainted in LNER black, the advantage with this model was the wheels were produced with a square central peg and the axles to suit so slipping was not a problem. My Replica has been fitted with a Lima tender drive fitted to the original top, new set of driving wheels from Replica for a princely sum of £2.70 +post, with no axle gear or traction tyres,Thanks Replica. Just managed to get the Dynamis chip in the tender by removing the coal load and cutting out the top, coal load will refit ok.Similar problems with this to negotiate R1's but succeeded. Further to loosening the keeper plate I found that deepening the plate where the center axle rubbed helped, in fact filing away the sides until scoring the inner bottom worked. One way I have connected the die cast chassis/ inc Mainline is to drill a small hole in each and drive in a very small brass pin for electrical connections when connections are needed. The Baccy is the slower runner of the 2 due to better gearing, taking some 15 secs for I rev of the driving wheels The Replica/Lima will only get down to just under 1.25 secs /rev, but at least it now runs acceptably Beeman. p.s. I do'nt seem to get any probs with the axle journals even using engine oil but this is probably due to fitting tender pickups on all where possible.Which I feel is essential if one is seeking reliable pickup. even on some of the old steel track with die cast blades, where its out of sight but still on the main routes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TM01 Posted October 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2011 I think that it could be a lot simpler than everyone thinks. I think that it may not have been run in properley. Just a thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hudson Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 That's always possible since I have no real idea on that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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