The APA Box

[Ian Holmes]

Good article. I liked it. Then again I've always like Mr. Futers' layouts. These plans are all based on some of his tried and tested schemes. I remember seeing "Lochside" and "Lochend" at York shows over the years and I seem to recall seeing one similar to plan 1 and 2 at Warley in the Mid-80's

 

Ian

[jimbofin]

Hmm. I was originally going to use another Apa box as a fiddle yard, but the joining them together issue led to me just using a precariously balanced Peco loco cradle instead.

 

For those who've not seen the boxes the end have three different depths. The side is further back than the horizontal cross pieces, and the uprights are further forward

 

If I were to join two together then I would think  about using pattern makers dowels  in the uprights, coupled with captive bolts (I got mine from C+L) on the lower cross beam.

 

I guess the best way to "bridge the gap" between two scenic-ed boxes would be with an Iain Rice style Jigsaw piece spanning a couple of inches each side

[Ian Holmes]

I like that idea of the jigsaw piece. That could work. I did manage to cobble together something when I joind fiddle yards to either end of one of my first APA box layouts. I'll have to see if I can find some pictures. Until I do here's some pics from a friends blog http://look4trains.com/2012/04/granite-city-in-rain.html

[Saddletank]

Though it's easy to say that the plans are the size of two APA's joinned together, in reality due to the design of the boxes it's not the easiest of tasks. I wait for someone to come up wit an invisible join between two sceniced APA's

 

Ian

That's something I haven't figured out an answer for yet, I did want to have an easily portable N gauge layout in 2 joinable APAs but can't work out an effective way to seal the open join ends when not in use. Ikea never really designed the box with this in mind, mores the pity!

[sparks]

Hmm. I was originally going to use another Apa box as a fiddle yard, but the joining them together issue led to me just using a precariously balanced Peco loco cradle instead.

 

For those who've not seen the boxes the end have three different depths. The side is further back than the horizontal cross pieces, and the uprights are further forward

 

If I were to join two together then I would think  bout using pattern makers dowels  in the uprights, couples with captive bolts on the lower cross beam.

 

I guess the best way to "bridge the gap" between two scenic-ed boxes would be with n Ianin Rice style Jigsaw piece spanning a couple of inches each side

 

I haven't worked out the finer details yet as I'm concentrating on the main box, but I'm planning on fixing the fiddle yard to the inside of the lid:- http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73735-riverside/?p=1090924

 

That's something I haven't figured out an answer for yet, I did want to have an easily portable N gauge layout in 2 joinable APAs but can't work out an effective way to seal the open join ends when not in use. Ikea never really designed the box with this in mind, mores the pity!

 

I looked at joining two boxes together and decided the only practical way of doing it was to have two 'scenes' with a scenic break such as an overbridge between them. Then you would only need train sized holes in the ends.

[Enterprisingwestern]

On first photo inspection of the near-mythical boxes (Never been in Ikea and have no intention of doing so ) It looks like joining them together would be a far harder job to do right than to make something up from raw wood!

Look to be rather handy for the larger "box-style" of diorama/layout though

 

Ideal for people with limited woodworking skills though, which is the whole point of Ikea stuff.

 

Mike.

[Kenton]

Excuse the apparently dumb answer (connecting two APA boxes together) I haven't had the opportunity to actually get to grips with one and am only going on posted images.

 

But first I am assuming the removal of the two end panels that will butt against each other and of course both front panels. I am also assuming that not only the removal of the adjacent ends but also the wooden bars that support them, leaving only the bottom and back bar/supports to "clamp" together.

 

As I see it, this then leaves the "base board" with a gap between the two boxes. Is it not a simple taske of having a baseboard insert that drops in/clamped in between?

 

This would leave a completely open 2 x APA box length as the viewing edge with far end panels and back intact.

[Ian Holmes]

Excuse the apparently dumb answer (connecting two APA boxes together) I haven't had the opportunity to actually get to grips with one and am only going on posted images.

 

But first I am assuming the removal of the two end panels that will butt against each other and of course both front panels. I am also assuming that not only the removal of the adjacent ends but also the wooden bars that support them, leaving only the bottom and back bar/supports to "clamp" together.

 

As I see it, this then leaves the "base board" with a gap between the two boxes. Is it not a simple taske of having a baseboard insert that drops in/clamped in between?

 

This would leave a completely open 2 x APA box length as the viewing edge with far end panels and back intact.

Close up photos and construction details here http://apamodelrr.blogspot.com/2012/04/apa-box-construction.html

[Kenton]

 

Close up photos and construction details here http://apamodelrr.blogspot.com/2012/04/apa-box-construction.html

Not quite how I imagined it

The two ends come ready assembled

So the two ends need to be disassembled and some more thought put into their re-assembly - I thought that it was a true flat pack just sheets of ply/hardboard and softwood spars to bolt/screw together. No longer such a good proposition.

[Ian Holmes]

Ideal for people with limited woodworking skills though, which is the whole point of Ikea stuff.

 

Mike.

 

This is most definitely me.

[Enterprisingwestern]

This is most definitely me.

 

The Ikea principal in full working order!

It gets you into building a layout and that must be good.

 

Mike.

[jimbofin]

I'm not sure how other people have gone about it, but I built a hot glued foam board baseboard to fit inside the Apa box so that I could fit under track wiring and also to raise the track to what seemed to me a more pleasing height in the box. In retrospect I think the value of the box was partly psychological  - which isn't unimportant, and also that in a small room it contained the mess during construction.

[Saddletank]

Futers be damned! Since reading that article my little notebook has been filling up, thanks to inspiration in the use of shunters and other various operational interest tricks.

 

The most helpful advice was to abandon the micro builders friend, setrack points in favour of short/medium electrofrog - as well as improving the look of the trackwork it forced me to think less about cramming in an extra siding here and there, and to create a more consistent concept throughout the layout.

 

The layout shape helped too - I was previously planning for a full depth APA box which made the track layout appear even shorter and much less flowing. Now the size limit helps focus the mind on what elements are actually necessary and what is essentially just filler.

 

So, currently evaluating the merits of a shortened scottish BLT with gravity shunting in green diesel era, and its got a lot going for it. Also got a junction station, a small colliery, a rural cattle dock sidings, and fuel oil depot in various states of design, just got to pick something to fill the other half of the APA, and try not to change my mind before I get round to building it

[jimbofin]

Phil Parker's blog this morning included a link to a very simple downloadable model of Volks  Railway No1,

 

It got me thinking about a couple of other ideas for an Apa Box, inspired by Walmington and Cliffhanger

 

http://apavalley.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/end-of-pier-show.html

[shortliner]

I just downloaded the instructions and read them (novelty there!)

 

They are certainly inexpensive lil units, and I can see that with a touch of butchery on the "inner ends" of two such units to be joined together its not that difficult to work out how to do so

 

A "single unit" 4'8" long should only need the inner ends replacing with cross members top and bottom, and probably a splicing length of ply back and front to keep it all together....

Use bolts to conenct the cross members, and the splicing pieces and the two halves could be seperated......

 

Hinges would allow it to be folded back into a double-depth box, albeit with an open end but thought could be given to a cover/end fixed with magnets

[jimbofin]

With an Apa box layout sat on the end of my desk and with an un-assembled one under the desk I can't help thinking about next steps and how to combine two of them ,

 

Bearing in mind how small they are as individual units one possibility is to permanently join two together.using some sort of sleeve joint over the longitudinal members, or , as IKEA use for some products, a double ended screw or dowel .

 

Or even abandoning the actual IKEA components and building a box to slightly larger dimensions using cheap batten timber.

 

Looking around the office come railway room it strikes me that the ideal size for a "Freedom Layout" in a modern house is probably the non standard 7' 6" X 18" including a 24"  (tank loco+ coach+ van) sector plate/cassette 24"long. I'm sure an easy to build and integrate 2ft sector plate would find a ready market

[Saddletank]

Good point, sector plates seems to be a hard thing to get right and I'm sure even the old hands would prefer a better engineered alternative to split hinges and bad carpentry! It can't be hard for a big company to get right surely?

[jimbofin]

Good point, sector plates seems to be a hard thing to get right and I'm sure even the old hands would prefer a better engineered alternative to split hinges and bad carpentry! It can't be hard for a big company to get right surely?

 Since I'm building the baseboards for the successor to the Apa layout the question of sector plates is an issue for me at the moment. Now I'm sure a capable DIY enthusiast, or a modeler who has built a few before, could knock one up in no time at all, but for an out and out amateur like me there seem to be a lot of pitfalls in the way of getting one to operate reliably and unobtrusively. When you struggle to cut a straight line with a jigsaw you sort of know that cutting a constant radius is going to be beyond you. A full blown commercial one would I'm sure be too expensive to attract much of an audience.. 

 

Three are three things I think I'll get wrong,

 

- Ensuring a smooth interface with the rest of the layout so the tracks align with the rails on the layout in all dimensions.

- Smooth rotation with a minimal gap between the sector plate and the layout.

- Simple but reliable electrics

 

I wonder if there is scope for a set of fittings for just the end of a sector board  and a bearing that would deal with all of these issues. I'm envisaging something two extruded pre- curved pieces, one to fit the layout edge and one to fit the sector board coupled with some form of spring loaded alignment device

[Kenton]

 

Three are three things I think I'll get wrong,

 

- Ensuring a smooth interface with the rest of the layout so the tracks align with the rails on the layout in all dimensions.

- Smooth rotation with a minimal gap between the sector plate and the layout.

- Simple but reliable electrics

 

I would say the worst thing is the angle of attack.

The electrics are simple once you decide if the sector plate is fully rotational (like a turntable) and decide on number of tracks on the sector plate.

 

Always build and place tracks on the sector place first then align the exit tracts to them.

 

The biggest problem I have is the height adjustment. Even a mm can create a big bump which when taken with the inevitable gap is a derailment issue. But then this is much the same as a baseboard join, the difference being lateral movement. Do not rely on the pivot point for support it will only allow the whole thing to rock.

[shortliner]

Not too sure why this is causing so much consternation - Start with a piece of copper clad about 2" long, and solder two rails to it (you can leave them in their sleepers while you do that to ensure correct spacing), remove the copper between the rails, and drill a hole for a screw , centrally, Model shop visit for a PECO locoLift (or two if you need a longer one - look in Carls scrapbook for how to extend it).  Screw in the copper clad with a spacer washer underneath (not too tight so it can rotate) - place one end of the locolift on the rails on the rotaty-bit , and far end of locolift on fixed rails on layout - Voila - a sector-plate  - move it to where you want the alternative track - place rails under the end of the locolift, and fix rails down by your chosen method - Power is supplied from the rails on the main layout - it doesn't need cutouts in the baseboard, or even need wiring! Seemplez! Tchick!

You can build more complicated ones with sub-mini jackplugs if you want to experiment further - ask if you need further explanation

[jimbofin]

Not too sure why this is causing so much consternation - Start with a piece of copper clad about 2" long, and solder two rails to it (you can leave them in their sleepers while you do that to ensure correct spacing), remove the copper between the rails, and drill a hole for a screw , centrally, Model shop visit for a PECO locoLift (or two if you need a longer one - look in Carls scrapbook for how to extend it).  Screw in the copper clad with a spacer washer underneath (not too tight so it can rotate) - place one end of the locolift on the rails on the rotaty-bit , and far end of locolift on fixed rails on layout - Voila - a sector-plate  - move it to where you want the alternative track - place rails under the end of the locolift, and fix rails down by your chosen method - Power is supplied from the rails on the main layout - it doesn't need cutouts in the baseboard, or even need wiring! Seemplez! Tchick!

You can build more complicated ones with sub-mini jackplugs if you want to experiment further - ask if you need further explanation

 

Hmm, I happen to have a loco lift, but since I'm switiching to EM gauge it might call for a slightly more radical adaption. I could split the loco lift into component parts and just use the hollow rail soldered to copperclad on the sectorboard itself. If I built the sector board so it had just a little upwards freedom of movement that would then let me lift it up to fit over the rails on the baseboard.

 

Later edit:

 

Which, reading back through this thread is more or less what you suggested on the first page! I think its given me one piece of the jigsaw puzzle I'm struggling with. The other, I think I've just realised is a more structural form of a "fiddlestick"  

[shortliner]

Hmm, I happen to have a loco lift, but since I'm switiching to EM gauge it might call for a slightly more radical adaption. I could split the loco lift into component parts and just use the hollow rail soldered to copperclad on the sectorboard itself. If I built the sector board so it had just a little upwards freedom of movement that would then let me lift it up to fit over the rails on the baseboard.

 

Neccessity - the mother of invention! 

[jimbofin]

I've had another bright idea:

 

http://apavalley.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/lateral-thinking.html

 

In N gauge this might just fit in an Apa box

[jimbofin]

In fact it seems you can even fit it into an Apa box using EM.

 

http://apavalley.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/the-concept-in-4mm.html

[Saddletank]

I noticed while visiting Ikea for the first time in about a year yesterday, that they have brought the SNACK box back into their range. No idea if this is comparable to the one initially discussed on this thread, but I've bought one and knocked it together to see how it compares with the APA.

 

It was a bit more expensive at £17 for the 30cm deep box (a half height one is available for £14) and I bought a lid for it which was £9 I think. The APA is £11 and comes with a lid. Oddly, the SNACK range isn't on their website though it was on the shelves in Edinburgh in plentiful supply, in the home organisation dept.

 

 

Construction

 

The box is constructed from 8mm ply sides and a 4mm ply base which is a little flimsy for basing a model on. The base slots into channels in the side boards and is supported on 12mm ply feet, so there is room to add a thin subframe to strengthen the bottom. These feet also allow the boxes to stack securely when the lids aren't used. The lids are positioned using battens on the underside but these aren't the same thickness as the feet so if you were wanting to use the lid as a fiddle yard you'd have to thicken these battens to bring the height level with the box base. The whole lot is secured with stubby screws common to all Ikea designs, and metal brackets which still permit a little wobble in the rigidity of the box.

 

 

Dimensions

 

The box is shorter and deeper than the APA, at 54x35x28cm (internal dimensions), which isn't helpful for a traditional layout requiring as much length as possible for turnouts, however there will be schemes where this isn't an obstacle, such as ones which use a traverser or sector plate to access tracks further back within the box.

 

For reference the APA is around 65x30x23cm internal dimensions IIRC, accounting for the thick frame.

 

 

What's the general consensus on the 'new' box then, will it be embraced by modellers of micros like the APA or boxfile a have? It certainly has a more robust practical feel in stock form than the APA but is quite a bit shorter. It'll be interesting to see what plans can be developed to fit the dimensions. Perhaps 2 or more can be laid end to end in a similar manner to techniques described above?

 

EDIT: just had a look at the receipt, the shelf price markings must have been incorrect because the full height box cost me £7.50 and the lid £4.50, so only marginally more expensive than an APA.