Proposed OO Layout - Advice welcomed

[Chris g]

Hi,

I would appreciate any comments or suggestions. My plan is to build an L shaped layout with a main line station (as illustrated below), based upon Chester Station in the mid 1970's (but very simplified !!!), and the main line running to North Wales. One leg of the 'L' will be Chester, the other the line to North Wales. Unfortunately my memory is as fuzzy as the goggle earth images. I've had an initial stab using set track components to get a 'shape' that seems familiar to me. I'm not really sure if I've selected the correct points, crossings etc. , to build a representative operating model for the west end of the station or infact any UK railway operations!!!. Any opinions welcomed.

 

Thanks

 

Chris g.

[Coombe Barton]

Unless the diamond is a double slip you cannot cross from up to down at that end.

[Katier]

Can't depart from the upper lines to the main down line either. Using settrack is limiting you here too but your main problem is the lack of lines to all platforms which makes the current layout unworkable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chris g]

Thanks John,

 

I didn't I think of that that, I've got something wrong there. Something is definitely missing. From memory the branch used the top platforms, but I can't remember which platform the 'down' to the branch departed from.

 

Regards

 

Chris g

[Chris g]

Katier,

 

Thanks, I've probably oversimplified it too much based upon my limited understanding of what usually happened, also the modern day images don't help me very much in trying to fill the gaps.

 

Regards

 

Chris g

[Flying Pig]

The general layout, if not a detailed track plan, can be seen on http://www.old-maps.co.uk. One thing that stands out is that there's a lot more distance between the platform ends and the junction than you've allowed, even after compression. Could you extend your station throat by shortening the platforms and letting longer trains overlap into the fiddle yard? That might allow you to fit in the connections you need (once you get hold of a track plan!). There are plenty of bits of roof as well as the station buildings to form a scenic break.

 

Edit: a signal diagram might help to understand what was going on.

[Katier]

looking at the mid 60's map on old-maps.co.uk it appears that both approach pairs of lines work in the same way. They split in a curved Y prior to the station throat with one pair of tracks feeding each 'half' of the station. the layout is massively complex, but I've had a go at a simpler layout. NOTE no attempt has been made to consider your space, this is purely to try to get an idea for you of how complex it'll have to be. Because your working with a junction it's hard to be compact AND allow all the crossovers.

 

 

 

Custom made track is definitely the best option but you could simplify it by allowing wrong long running out of the station with a crossover after each junction. Might give you a bit more space and simplified track but would reduce the flexibility as you couldn't have departures and arrivals concurrently.

 

 

[Katier]

As flying pig says, there is a good deal of distance between the platforms and the crossovers - my plan is purely trying to get the options right (a signalling style diagram) but it getting close to the simplest possible for the platforms you included.

[Oldddudders]

Not gainsaying others' views, but my first concern is no run-round facility, so unless you are exclusively DMU then operations are going to be very limited.

[The Stationmaster]

To be honest I am very unclear about what you are trying to do. Are trains going to come in and reverse to go back the way they have come? (if so you need some trailing crossovers - one for each route beyond the junction perhaps?). Will trains need to run round? (as Ian has said that doesn't seem to be possible - but perhaps there will be more layout off to the right?). The problem I think is that you have gone from pairing by use beyond the junction to pairing by direction in the station without providing a full range of crossover facilities.

 

In my view you should list all the movements you want to make before you plan your track layout and then try to plan it to achieve what you have in mind - possibly dropping some ideas if you think it is getting over complicated. And just do a few doodles and pencil sketches before you start on the 'master plan' to get used to planning a track layout and how it will work.

[Katier]

Shows how complex this kind of arrangement is - just spotted I missed a cross over on the up line prior to the bottom section of the station so trains can use the bottom station platforms.

 

Olddudders is dead right about the lack of runaround too - although the OP did mention a fiddle yard so technically it's a through station not a terminus.

 

 

[Chris g]

Thanks for the replies, they are much appreciated. Even though I didn't explain what I was trying to do very well, I think you have spotted the flaws in my plan !!!.

 

Flyng PIg - You are right, I tried to reduce the distance from the platforms to the junction to try to fit it into the space I have.

 

Katier - Many thanks for the layout, the complexity of what I was trying to do is frightening !!! and my over simplification creates its own problems.

 

The Stationmaster - I think your first sentence applies to me as well !!!!

 

My idea was really to concentrate on working from the station along the main line (leaving on the bottom left of my diagram) with trains effectively running through the station to the other end of the main line. Infact due to space limitations, they would start and end in a fiddle yard to the right of the station, with a simpler arrangement to turn the locomotives at other end of the main line.

 

The upper branch was there mainly so I could put in the maintenance shed, so as such, there would be limited operation from the top platform.

 

So I'll give it all some thought, taking stationmaster's advice and hopefully come back with something more sensible.

 

Regards

 

Chris g

[Katier]

I think your problem is trying to fit a complex junction station into a tight space. My personal advice would be to find a conventional through station with the facilities you are looking for. By removing the junction thing are a lot simpler, and if it's a simple 2 platform ( maybe with a bay line for variety ) station the pointwork is instantly simplified.

[PWSlack]

Rather than starting with set track components and seeing what can be done with them, start from a position where the types and routes of trains and shunt workings are to operate, and then design the track layout to accomodate them.

[Chris g]

Following the comments gratefully received, I have looked again at the photos of the real track layout from the web and better appreciate the complexity involved in the real life implementation.

 

I'm trying to work out what is feasible for me to model in the space available and to reduce the complexity and hence cost of the branch lines that I won't really use, (but I don't want to give up on the West half of Chester yet as my main feature).

 

Knowing little of real life operations, I would be grateful if anyone could help with answers to the following questions:

 

1) Do I need to keep a 'dummy' branch line to justify the number of platforms;

2) Should every platform be accessible from each direction, ( bay platforms may be an exception, here I guess, you need to go through the station and reverse);

3) If there is a maintenance facility only (i.e. not one coming off the branch line) would this need to be accessible to all platforms ?

 

Sorry if I've used the incorrect terminology

 

Regards

 

Chris g

[Katier]

Ignoring chester specifically..

 

No - branchlines don't need to access all lines. There are plenty of examples where the junction between main and branchline is before the station. Thus the track splits THEN the platforms are in place thus the branch is limited to only specific platform(s). Stourbridge junction springs to mind as a simple example but there must be others.

 

The technical problem here, of course, is that it's not chester as chester has it's junction between the branch and the platforms adding to the complexity. Moor Street kinda has this arrangement too although in this case the branch line is actually just a terminus platform but the same arrangement could be used to feed a branchline.

Platforms can be 'mono directional' and indeed if you look at Tyseley station in birmingham you'll find it does what you need ( I think ).

 

The branchline from Wythall feeds only two of the 4 platforms. The Line from Solihull ( which is a mainline) feeds all 4 platforms but in all cases, if I've read the trackwork correctly, the platforms are all mono-directional.

 

 

 

 

Tysley also shows how a MPD may be fed as Tyseley has one ( as well as a Steam Heritage center )

 

 

 

[Chris g]

Katier,

 

Thanks for the response, I really appreciate your help for finding the examples.

 

The branch line arrangement at Tyseley seems to give me what I'm looking for, and doesn't really restrict the operations I have in mind for my layout.

 

As you say, if I reposition the branch line then the layout is not Chester, but basing my layout on a 'fictional' location, (as long as it is plausible), will seem to be a more achievable aim for me.

 

Many thanks

 

Chris g