Pixie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Out of interest Chris, what thickness are the frames on these kits? Looking really interesting, I feel an 03 and 08 coming on! Pix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Best to say accurately drill. Oh I don't know, It's amazing what you can get away with when soldering bushes into an oversize and mis-shapen hole. The piercing saw is my must-have modelling tool. A lot of people seem to have trouble with them though. I once spoke to a chap at a show who was demonstrating loco building in O gauge. He was building one of every class of loco his particular favourite railway had but he wouldn't use a piercing saw. All the parts for his locos were cut by drilling holes around the edge and then filing the bits in between. I recall some years ago a great series of articles on how to use tools, but when it came to the piercing saw the author got about everything the complete opposite of what was supposed to happen. Maybe you saw the same article. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Best to say accurately drill. I have had a few tribulations with gear meshing over the years, which is why I etch all my stuff now. Not to mention no need to cut out stuff with a piercing saw, at which I was also rubbish. They need to be square too. I bought a drill press because it makes it much easier. I use my piercing saw a lot, but some things are far too much work - anything with springs needs to be etched or added later as castings. I can build one of these chassis kit from its parts in an hour (excluding the brake gear). Ok, I've had a bit of practice. Everything from then on is the stuff you have to do for every loco, kit or scratch built. Quartering the wheels, fitting the coupling rods, getting everything running smoothly. I'm not sure that I'd be able to match that time (especially forgiving that the wheels and chassis must be painted separately before assmebly imo) but I would imagine that a couple of hours would be plenty after the first one. There isn't actually a lot of work involved. Oh I don't know, It's amazing what you can get away with when soldering bushes into an oversize and mis-shapen hole. It is better to get them the right size in the right place though... The piercing saw is my must-have modelling tool. A lot of people seem to have trouble with them though. I once spoke to a chap at a show who was demonstrating loco building in O gauge. He was building one of every class of loco his particular favourite railway had but he wouldn't use a piercing saw. All the parts for his locos were cut by drilling holes around the edge and then filing the bits in between. That method is crazy. I think I have seen this man (or another like him). My piercing saw is used a lot, but not nearly as much as the range of small pliers, and tweezers, I have accumulated: I couldn't produce anything without the ability to hold things. Edited January 11, 2012 by richbrummitt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Out of interest Chris, what thickness are the frames on these kits? Looking really interesting, I feel an 03 and 08 coming on! Pix 0.25mm (10 thou) like everything else in 2mm! I did the Association 08 kit frames in 15 thou, which wrorked well, however the finer parts - brakes and rodding - won't come out in that thickness. And creating a chassis with two different thicknesses is a logistical nightmare. If 10 thou is good enough for the maestro Bob Jones, it's good enough for me. Build the 03 first, the 08 is more challenging. Not much room for the outside frames (it's that issue with overwidth wheels and true-scale track gauge, Natalie) and you have to get those outside cranks right. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) My piercing saw is used a lot, but not nearly as much as the range of small pliers, and tweezers, I have accumulated: I couldn't produce anything without the ability to hold things. My favourite tools are 1. Small pair of watchmaker's pliers. I only seem to need the one pair which I inherited from my Dad. My kids will tell you what a stink there is when they have been lifted without permission from my workbench. 2. Top of the range needle files. Worth every penny. 3. RSU 4. Mole wrench. Does everything else around the house and even finds a few uses in 2mm modelling. 5. CAD software Piercing saw was lost years ago. No idea where it is. Chris Edited January 11, 2012 by Chris Higgs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It is better to get them the right size in the right place though... True, although there's something to said for bushes in slots for getting gears to mesh nicely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 That method is crazy. I think I have seen this man (or another like him). My piercing saw is used a lot, but not nearly as much as the range of small pliers, and tweezers, I have accumulated: I couldn't produce anything without the ability to hold things. The late Pete Wright used to cut out 2mm loco frames using a vice and a hammer and cold chisel......! Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 The late Pete Wright used to cut out 2mm loco frames using a vice and a hammer and cold chisel......! Andy That method also sounds crazy - what was his prefered method to skin cats? I only met him once. It was he who convinced me that I should remove both feet from N gauge modelling, in one go. I never look back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 12, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2012 And going back to the etched chassis, I now have one in my possession, and very nice it looks too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 It appears I have just purchased a Farish J94 on ebay........I'd better order the chassis kit. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 According to recent posts on the VAG, small faults have been found in three of the new etches - 04 and J94 have errors in the assembly jigs (apparently the two sides don't quite match), and there is an error in the tender jig for the 4F. The etches are being re-done (not sure if it's the whole etches or just the jigs), so there may be some delay in obtaining your J94 etch from shop3 (or you may receive a slightly faulty one). No doubt Chris Higgs or shop3 or chief shopkeeper can provide further information. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 So I guess the best thing is to wait a bit.......thanks for the info Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 According to recent posts on the VAG, small faults have been found in three of the new etches - 04 and J94 have errors in the assembly jigs (apparently the two sides don't quite match), and there is an error in the tender jig for the 4F. The etches are being re-done (not sure if it's the whole etches or just the jigs), so there may be some delay in obtaining your J94 etch from shop3 (or you may receive a slightly faulty one). No doubt Chris Higgs or shop3 or chief shopkeeper can provide further information. David I am doing two things in this regard: 1. Ordering replacement etches of the assembly jigs only for these three locos. 2. Checking whether the chassis will build OK as is - for the more impatient! Notwithstanding remarks on the VAG, I found that the test etches of both J94 and 03 built OK, which is why I did not spot the error at the time. This was because although the axle rods were going through the jig at an angle, the two frames were still held square to one another and so soldering up true. The slots in the jig, which are primarily there to hold the frames at the correct width were wide enough to accomodate the fact that the frames were not actually quite vertical in the slot. I have to test whether that is still true in the production etches, which were etched with a different company. Unfortunately I have to attend a funeral today, and so will not have time to investigate until tomorrow at least. Those using the old fashioned method of assembly with the Association jig (3-270) won't be affected by the issue. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeld Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I was really looking forward to this product coming out,truly inventive and a great idea.What better way to give someone who hasn't had too much success in loco chassis building to easily build a square and true set of frames- all the hard work done,gears should mesh,wheels square brilliant idea. But there is a problem with this batch of productions etches for the 04 and J94. You cannot build a square chassis with the jig that is how much of a "small error" there is. The answer Chris built with the test etch and not a production etch explains it all, there quite a way out. There is a significant difference between the two sides of the cradle sadly.If you open up the vertical slots to the degree Chris suggests then more problems occur.But if you file an angle in the vertical slots then yes it works but it does defeat the purpose of the original idea surely?? After all by the time you've purchased the chassis wheels gears etc you are looking at not much chance out of £100. So maybe the comment "for the impatient" is not quite what is needed..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 So maybe the comment "for the impatient" is not quite what is needed..... Michael, Agreed - the problem does seem to be more pronounced on the production etches (I have an 03 chassis too). I would wait for the replacement jig etches to be produced. It is disappointing that these problems have occurred (and weren't picked-up at the test etch stage), but it will be resolved. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 it will be resolved. This is what is important here, not that it occured in the first place. Incidentally my 2251 is nice and square. I built it the old way, but it would have been just fine in the chassis jig too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeld Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The idea behind these chassis and the design is absolutely first class and all credit to Chris and the association. I have no doubt it will be resolved to say its not important it happened in the first place I think is very wrong. It should not have happened at all...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 0.25mm (10 thou) like everything else in 2mm! Thanks for the information Chris - most useful! Looking forward to having a go at one of these and thanks for the development, I'm sure they'll be really popular and appreciated items. Now, can I tempt you to do the 14 so I can stop working on mine? Pix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The idea behind these chassis and the design is absolutely first class and all credit to Chris and the association. I have no doubt it will be resolved to say its not important it happened in the first place I think is very wrong. It should not have happened at all...... No it shouldn't have happened, but lessons have hopefully been learnt. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Thanks for the information Chris - most useful! Looking forward to having a go at one of these and thanks for the development, I'm sure they'll be really popular and appreciated items. Now, can I tempt you to do the 14 so I can stop working on mine? Pix I didn't do the 14 because I thought someone else (presumably you) had already done it. Otherwise it certainly would have been on my second list as a useful industrial. I had been given the impression (no idea by who) that it was already finished and ready to go. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I didn't do the 14 because I thought someone else (presumably you) had already done it. Otherwise it certainly would have been on my second list as a useful industrial. I had been given the impression (no idea by who) that it was already finished and ready to go. Hiya Chris - I got the detailing etch finished (but still need to put into production... one year on. Opps) and the full chassis made it to the first test etch... then I found some issues, resolved them and put it into the second test etch, stopped to await wheels, put to one side and forgotten about. No problem if you want to add this one to your range - standardisation would be good and there's no point in rivalries. Saves me writing instructions too. Pix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted January 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I didn't do the 14 because I thought someone else (presumably you) had already done it. Otherwise it certainly would have been on my second list as a useful industrial. I had been given the impression (no idea by who) that it was already finished and ready to go. Chris Hi I would be interested in one if you went ahead with developing it. Cheers Paul Edited January 16, 2012 by PaulCheffus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Saves me writing instructions too. What are those? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 What are those? They are what you look at after you built it to see where you went wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 They are what you look at after you built it to see where you went wrong. Oh. I've never seen them... ...actually I found some the other day that explained why I had gone wrong! No names (but it isn't Mr Higgs) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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