Etched loco chassis

[Nigelcliffe]

And when you sqeeze up the drivers to correct BtoB how do you keep muff central to stop is pinching the wire (between muuff and bearing) thus preventing it functioning as intended?

 

Using the shim pieces supplied with the quartering jig :-) Wedge those in before tightening up, then pull out when finished.

 

 

The lathe method has a honourable tradition; Bill Blackburn has a set of tools to do just the same, and the quartering jig came about by working out how to replicate Bill's jigs in as a useful tool.

 

 

- Nigel

[Tim V]

Or slip some plasticard half washers in. I reduced the length of the muffs by a smidge using no more than a scalpel, just put your callipers between your bearings, and calculate the required cut.

[queensquare]

Thanks Guys. But you still haven't told me the spring wire diameter and material to use! Or is that a secret known only to certain individuals in a magic circle?

 

Its no secret and has been refered to a number of times, use the springs from N gauge couplings straightened out. The articles you have been refered to give much greater detail.

 

Jerry

[2mm Andy]

Thanks Guys. But you still haven't told me the spring wire diameter and material to use! Or is that a secret known only to certain individuals in a magic circle?

 

Tony,

 

I don't think that is a very fair comment - a lot of people have taken time to help you by answering your numerous questions!

 

Anyway, I've just done a search on the 2mm yahoo group for "simpson spring wire" and on the first page of results is a message with the information that an n gauge coupling spring wire is 6 thou (0.17mm). They are phosphor bronze.

 

Regarding the risk of the wires getting damaged, you can 'hook' them up onto the shoulders of the axle bearings to stop them getting damaged when fitting the shims and clamping the wheels together in the frames.

 

Andy

[oily]

Sorry Andy, it wasn't meant to be an unfair comment but a joke. I apologize if I've given offence as none was intended and I have expressed my thanks quite openly.

 

Thank you also for giving the spring wire size. I had early on realised it was N gauge coupling springs of course as this is frequently referred to in articles but as I explained I didn't have one to use or measure and wanted to source an alternative.

 

In my defence I should also say that I had done an internet search "Simpson Springs" read the Yahoo site instructions ""An Alternative Method of Chassis Construction Involving Springing the Axles", read various articles in the Magazine Archive including the definitive paper "Springing for 2mm Locomotives" by Mick Simpson and could not find any reference (unless I missed it which is possible) to the actual wire diameter.

 

So I'm grateful for you giving me the answer I sought.

 

Again I apologize unreservedly for any offence about magic circles. I promise I will refrain from making comments in jest in future.

I wouldn't get too upset bogieman. I saw your reference to a magic circle as humour out of your frustration at trying to find the wire size. I had been reading the messages hoping too to get the answer and being disappointed that I never got the answer and I've been a modeller for years. But please don't anyone take that as another criticism, it's just an observation to make bogieman feel less bad. I'm sure he never thought the remark would be taken as it has. And it does seem he really tried hard to find an answer before he asked here. Perhaps, and this is only a thought as I don't want to offend anyone, we need to be wary of being too quick to be critical of beginners/less informed/strugglers/the curious who seek answers to questions we may regard as basic/obvious/easily found.

[2mm Andy]

No worries Tony - yesterday wasn't a good day and I was a little grumpy by the evening (being stuck in the office until nearly 8pm didn't help!). Those little yellow smilies are a good way of indicating a joke!

 

It is generally worth doing a search on the 2mm yahoo group on things like the Simpson springs (although I accept that the search function on yahoo groups is not very user-friendly). The springs (not springs really but enhanced pick-ups) are something that is growing in popularity amongst 2mm modellers, and when you try them you will see why! If you can't find any of the ultra-thin wire let me know and I'll send you a couple of spare springs.

 

Regards,

 

Andy

[2mm Andy]

I wouldn't get too upset bogieman. I saw your reference to a magic circle as humour out of your frustration at trying to find the wire size. I had been reading the messages hoping too to get the answer and being disappointed that I never got the answer and I've been a modeller for years. But please don't anyone take that as another criticism, it's just an observation to make bogieman feel less bad. I'm sure he never thought the remark would be taken as it has. And it does seem he really tried hard to find an answer before he asked here. Perhaps, and this is only a thought as I don't want to offend anyone, we need to be wary of being too quick to be critical of beginners/less informed/strugglers/the curious who seek answers to questions we may regard as basic/obvious/easily found.

 

OK - noted. But the information was fairly easily available as I pointed out above. I might also suggest that it might be prudent to wait a little more than 2 hours after asking the question before making comments about the information only being available to "individuals in a magic circle".

 

In response to your last sentence, if you look back amongst the threads in this area it should be evident that beginners are offered advice and support on a regular basis. I am currently completing the revision of the 2mm Beginners Guide, so I am genuinely interested in finding out what beginners to the scale are finding difficulties with, or what they need advice about so that I can make improvements.

 

Anyway, getting back to the subject of loco chassis, I will take a couple of these etched chassis (one part-assembled) to the RMweb members day tomorrow. If anyone wants to have a chat about then, then just collar me - I'll be somewhere near the 2mm demo or Highclere.

 

Andy

[2mm Andy]

Tony, that wire should be fine - this is one of those cases where a thinner wire is better.

 

Mick was probably still in short trousers in the 60s, so hadn't invented Simpson springs then!

 

Andy

[Nig H]

I expect the jig is quicker to set up, but it is £35, and I had the lathe. One thing the jig will have is repeatability - so if only one wheelset needs setting, that can be done with the assurance that it will be the same as the others.

 

Or you could use the method described in my post of 11th June, which is even cheaper, and has always worked well for me.

 

Regards,

 

Nigel H

[queensquare]

Having done one I understand better. I reamed the 1.5mm bearing out with a 1/16in reamer and the wheel "slop" was not what I had been expecting, really very little. I will do a whole chassis and see how it performs compared to a "rigid" version. Although my first one (rigid) does run reliably to less than 5 scale mph.

The phosphor bronze wires are also easy to fit given the prepared holes in the etch.

Does anyone have a view about whether just enlarging central axle on an 0-6-0T would be as effective as doing all three?

 

I would do all three. Its all about pickup, as others have said calling them springs is probably a bit misleading, they are auxiliary pickups.

 

Jerry

[richbrummitt]

Might not be relevant...

 

I'd say it is. The rear drive should disappear behind the tank support and ejectors. The mid drive will be more visible, but less obvious once the lower half of the boiler is in place. Nice to see progress on these. Please keep us updated!

Edited July 21, 2012 by richbrummitt

[Tim V]

Ran my pannier on Wenford Bridge where it performed very well. I put this down to the accuracy of the etchings and assembly jig. Needs a bit of running in on a continuous line now....

[-missy-]

Hello Tony.

 

I think you have answered your own question there...

 

Now having made the first (of a series) of working non shorting scale running plates for 57xx etched chassis I moved the splashers out by less than 0.5mm and it looks and runs ok and you can't tell without a vernier and measuring and knowing the prototype scale dimension from splasher front to edge of running plate.

 

There will always be compromises...

 

M

[Donw]

With the shape of the pannier above I do not see that you would notice if the wheel was inboard of the splasher. Might be a little different with a bulldog or Missy's City of Truro

Mind you the logic of where you are going is P2 and you would probably be on your own there. That sort of concern is more suited to scale 7 I like 2mm because it a bit more broad brush or it is for me.

[Chris Higgs]

There will always be compromises...

 

Tony,

 

Julia is indeed correct. This issue arise with every 2FS loco which has splashers. The combination of scale gauge track but overscale width wheels means that the spasher dimensions have to be made both wider overall to fit the wheels in, and also wider individually to cover the flange. Depending on the wheel size used compared to prototype, you might even have to make the splasher larger to accomodate the overscale flange depth. On many locos this is more noticeable than it will be on a Pannier, and is often one of the trickier jobs involved when building a loco etch that has been 'shot down' from 4mm scale.

 

It's just the nature of the beast when modelling in 2FS. If you really want scale width splashers, you are looking at modelling in P4 or S7 instead.

 

Chris

[richbrummitt]

I'm not sure. I think that if the splashes were to be extended inwards then the footplate would have to have a narrower slot in the middle to match. I'd be very tempted to leave it as it is. The tyres will not be very visible with the body in place. It might be helpful to see it with the body in place to be sure. Blackening the tyres would make them even less obvious?

[Tim V]

So you view your models from that close - larger than life size. I know I certainly wouldn't consider looking that closely at a 4mm model, let alone a 2mm model.

[richbrummitt]

No guarantees but Nick Tilston of N Brass Locos or perhaps BHE would be my first guess for having something suitable. The difficulty can be finding out what the items look like when ordering over the phone/Internet. The pictures on Nick's site are better than nothing but are pretty low res.

[Chris Higgs]

No guarantees but Nick Tilston of N Brass Locos or perhaps BHE would be my first guess for having something suitable. The difficulty can be finding out what the items look like when ordering over the phone/Internet. The pictures on Nick's site are better than nothing but are pretty low res.

 

Sadly the N Brass ones look like the earlier Churchward taper buffers. Kings and Halls also had taper buffers as built.

 

You could half-inch a set off a Peco 2251, but that would be a very expensive way to do the job!

 

Chris

[2mm Andy]

Does anyone know of a source of GWR Collett Loco Buffers in brass? Although lovely the ones in the 2mm shop have too flimsy a shank, the Collett buffer has a very very much thicker shank as per the attached drawing.

 

Why don't you email Nick Tilston at N Brass Loco and attach a drawing/photo showing what you're after? I have always found him to be very helpful when I've been looking for certain loco fittings.

 

Andy

[-missy-]

Or make them yourself out of some Brass tube?

[-missy-]

So I have written to Nick to see if he'd be interested in a master to cast others from but not had a reply so far, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed he'll be interested.

 

You really dont have much patience do you! Give the poor guy a chance to reply!! Not everyone can reply straight away...

 

M.

[richbrummitt]

Sadly the N Brass ones look like the earlier Churchward taper buffers. Kings and Halls also had taper buffers as built.

 

Yes, the ones described as Churchward buffers look like Churchward buffers, however there may be some others that are suitable. The ROD and LNER pacific buffers are parallel and chunky but I've no idea how big (or not) they are in comparison. There are also some 3mm LMS buffers that might reduce the amount of turning required to a quick reduction of the head if the remainder is a good size?

[2mm Andy]

So I have written to Nick to see if he'd be interested in a master to cast others from but not had a reply so far, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed he'll be interested.

The latest option I've realised though is that some basic dimensions of the Grafar buffers are to scale. They would only need replacement heads 2.75mm up from existing 2.25mm and lengthening by addition of (ideally) 0.5mm thick square plate at base to make them very close to perfect.

 

What I meant in my original post was that Nick could advise what from his current range would be suitable (as Rich has noted). He sells quite a wide variety of turned buffers, so I'm sure something will be close. As an example, I have some of his 'Industrial loco buffers' that are turned brass (with an optional etched head overlay). The turnings have a head diameter of 3mm, overall length 3.4mm, shank diameter 1.2mm, housing diameter 1.5mm and housing length 2mm, and they even come with a small etched square baseplate. Are they suitable?

 

Andy

Edited August 11, 2012 by 2mm Andy

[Valentin]

Do it one axle at a time. Quarter the first one by eye. Then set the next axle as close as you can by eye, put the coupling rods on and tweak the wheels on the second axle unti it runs nicely without binding, then repeat for the third axle.

 

Thank you! I followed your advice and, after only about 20' of work, both rods were fitted to the wheels which are spinning very smoothly. I am very pleased, this is my first try in wheels quartering and it looks like it is not a complicated process at all.